Nolva vs Clomid opinions wanted

[pursuit]

Macro, can you back up some of these statements:
"Nolva is better as a priming agent for HCG, but thats about it."


"Though it will work ok for some people, though if your highly suppressed it generally wont (its actions of priming require that you have at least minimal LH production for success)"

"as they based their theory on what one could only deem a very poor understanding of the HPGA."

Is there a better understanding of the hpga that I am not aware of?

 

[blut wump]

Where do get the idea that there is no evidence that nolva is better than clomid for HPGA restoral?
This study shows that 20mg is as effective as 150mg of clomid in restoring testosterone levels:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...st_uids=640052&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

Also, where do get the idea that nolva is better as a priming agent for HCG and thats about it?

I've seen that before. The study is on "normal males". This would indicate that they already had LH production prior to taking either the Nolva or Clomid.

It might suggest that Nolva + Clomid is worthy of consideration.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I used nolvadex for my first few PCT's... because my PCT's failed, I deemed that Nolva wasn't a good choice for me.... on top of that, it absolutely KILLED my libido.... nobody wants that, especially during PCT! I definitely responded better to Clomid as far as recovering, however it's not without its sides too... visual effects, depression, and wicked wicked abdominal cramping.... until my current PCT though, I always frontloaded it and ran dosages up at around 100mg ED.... now I've started with 50mg ED and maintained that.... sides are minimial, however I am starting to get the abdominal crapming.... just not sure how to alleviate that.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Where do get the idea that there is no evidence that nolva is better than clomid for HPGA restoral?
This study shows that 20mg is as effective as 150mg of clomid in restoring testosterone levels:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...st_uids=640052&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

Also, where do get the idea that nolva is better as a priming agent for HCG and thats about it?

actually this study supports all those statements. reading the study (not the abstract as well as subsequent research into their binding will help)

btw- what the study says is that in gonadonormal men that both stimulate testostereone release and increase LH. mechanistically they do so differently. to clarify again tamox is an GnRH sensitizer (priming agent) whereas clomid is a GnRH releaser.

 

[chestmaster1]

actually this study supports all those statements. reading the study (not the abstract as well as subsequent research into their binding will help)

btw- what the study says is that in gonadonormal men that both stimulate testostereone release and increase LH. mechanistically they do so differently. to clarify again tamox is an GnRH sensitizer (priming agent) whereas clomid is a GnRH releaser.

So doesn't that mean that Nolva increases your body's sensitivity to LH thus increasing testosterone and Clomid since its a realeaser, can reduce sensitivity of LH?

 

[dr_skier]

Nolva murdered my sex drive last spring too, murdered it.

I'd rather use clomid and deal with a being a bit depressed if it means I still want to have sex.

I did still use a minimal amount of nolva (10days worth at 20mg) while taking my hcg at the start of my pct.

I'm still running clomid for another two and a bit weeks, if anyone knows any good herbal supps that i could go grab to make me feel a bit more upbeat that'd be cool.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

not in an hypogonadal model (there are exceptions, the conditions for which are too long to go into here- mainly relating to plasma estrogen)

in a normogonodal model, men producing normal levels of GnRH, tamoxifen does raise test slightly more, though this effect is transient and followed by lowered levels.

 

[krishna]

Nolva murdered my sex drive last spring too, murdered it.

I'd rather use clomid and deal with a being a bit depressed if it means I still want to have sex.

I did still use a minimal amount of nolva (10days worth at 20mg) while taking my hcg at the start of my pct.

I'm still running clomid for another two and a bit weeks, if anyone knows any good herbal supps that i could go grab to make me feel a bit more upbeat that'd be cool.

Nolva lowers mine too. I like clomid; it doesn't make me feel weird at all; plus I bust huge loads.

 

[dr_skier]

for clomid it only amplifies the effects of a current situations with my ex-girlfriend and other girls in my life, i keep it in check though or do my best too. Watched "eight simple rules for dating my teenage daughter" the other night, the sit-com with john ritter before he died, anyways the episode was the one afterwards where the family was dealing with his death, i was a mess. You can sit there welling up with tears and emotions and at the same time laugh at yourself cause you know it's all the clomid. Everyone is different i guess, soon i get to go down to 50mg a day where i feel just fine.

 

[krishna]

for clomid it only amplifies the effects of a current situations with my ex-girlfriend and other girls in my life, i keep it in check though or do my best too. Watched "eight simple rules for dating my teenage daughter" the other night, the sit-com with john ritter before he died, anyways the episode was the one afterwards where the family was dealing with his death, i was a mess. You can sit there welling up with tears and emotions and at the same time laugh at yourself cause you know it's all the clomid. Everyone is different i guess, soon i get to go down to 50mg a day where i feel just fine.

Why do people frontload clomid? Pointless IMO. Just do 50mg a day from the beginning of your pct and you'll be fine and recover fine.