In defence of Smith Machine squats

[Realgains]

RG, I think the negative comments about the Smith Machine stem from seeing so many people using it exclusively for squats, rather than putting in the time and effort necessary to perfect their form in a free squat. Most of the time the Smith bashing is locker room talk...to be taken with a grain of salt. The Smith, in my opinion, is limiting...which is good, if that's what you're looking for.

Yes, it amuses me when I see a guy who is doing quarter squats on the Smith (usually with poor form and too much weight). I think the offenders could make better use of their time doing something else.

So for what it's worth, if you say that ".... there is no machine that can duplicate any form of deadlift or the free squat.
The Smith machine is good for those that KNOW HOW to use it safely(no excessive foot positions) BUT THE FREE SQUAT IS BETTER if you can squat safely," then I 100% agree with you. It just seems as though you are defending the Smith Machine a bit much.

Then again, what do I know anyway?!

Thats a good little post and thank you for putting things across so well.


Well I too think the Smith machine is abused. SO MANY people use it wrong with too much weight, weird foot palcements, partial reps just like you said. They also use it because the are afraid of the regular back squat and or too damn lazy to learn to squat.
Lastly they wrongly think that they are going to develope the frontal quads better but using the smith with a forward foot placement.

If the Smith haters focused on this I would never have written my post but the thing is they don't...instead they like to focus on the Smiths so called ability to cause injury and other things as well as their favorite..."the smith machine squat does not transfer over to functional strength in other sports or day to day life" MAN I HATE THAT ONE!

YES the Smith machine is a favorite of abusers of form and this hurts the smith.

BUT....when I do an intense set of high rep full squats in the smith ...people stop and watch and nobody even thinks about how crappy the smith is...instead I routinely have power lifters and other experience bodybuilders come over to me after a set to say "nice form" or "great set".

Use the smith correctly or don't use it at all. Don't be an idiot and do half reps with feet far forward of the bar and a ton of weight.

RG

 

[Nonerz]

Maybe it is actually harder to maintain good form on the Smith because it doesn't "allow" you to move in a natural ROM...it moves on a predetermined path, thus making it more difficult to put/keep your body in what would be considered the proper position.

just a thought...

 

[spiderwoman]

I appreciate this thread and squatted with the smith machine for years. Only recently have I started squatting with the bar... I like it better although I have trouble squatting 220 like I used to with the smith cuz I don't have a spotter. I do box squats but not anywhere as heavy. I had knee trouble with the smith and stopped that, thinking it was the machine. In retrospect, it probably was due to the fact that I whipped my knees out in front too much [dumb trainer's idea]. So, on the smith, my knees are nearly under the bar, ya?? or just in front a few inches??

and, what about hacks??

 

[b fold the truth]

I have hurt both a knee and my rotator cuffs (twice on the cuffs) while using the smith machine. I think that I could probably train some exercises on one now as long as I was not pushing heavy weights or anywhere near failure. It just doesn't allow for proper range of motion...

It doesn't fit into my goals, I can't see spending THAT kind of money on a machine with so little use/functionality, and I can't see where it would help me much at all. I'd give it a whirl though...thought about doing front squats on one or using it to prepare for the 'Bud Girl Squat' that the Pro's use now.

As far as using the Smith Machine for those with back problems, I just do not see the smith machine allowing for a natural ROM which would not be good for your spine/back. I also look at a weak back as 'something to strengthen'.

Very good post though..I am going to copy/paste/save/print it for future use.

B True

 

[Realgains]

Thanx for the reply b- fold...

I too sure the heck would never actually buy a Smith machine.

If one is a half decent squater one certainly doesn't need the Smith machine.. In fact one doesn't need to do ANYTHING for the quads other than deep back squats.

If the Smith feels weird or odd then I don't think a person should use it. The same could be said about other exercises....ie: I have no problem doing upright rows to failure with a heavy weight and wrist straps but others find the movement odd and it has injured many a rotator cuff as a result.

I use the Smith from time to time but only for a break from my regular back squat. I also do a more full range trap bar deadlift up on a platform instead of regular squats from time to time too. I do not use the Smith like Dorian Yates used to use it, that is in place of the regular squat.

The very fact that a VERY strong and experienced bodybuilder got good results from the Smith squat holds some weight in my books. Remember Yates was from the old school and used to think that one must squat in the rack all the time.

b-fold.....I also use the smith for seated front presses in a bench set at about 80 degrees and I find this an excellent movement as did Dorian...I actually got the idea form Yates. Sometimes I do shrugs in the smith and occasionally shallow inclines but that is it.


About the rotator cuff..I hear ya bro and I have had issues here too and you know which exercise is actually the WORST in this regard...the regular press behind the neck. As far as I am concerned NOBODY should use this movement while training to failure. It woudl probably be even worse in the smith. Another bad one for many is the regular bench press yet some people have no problems with the exercise.

The Smith is not this monster injury machine that some would like to imagine it as. It sees a GREAT DEAL of abuse and MANY peole that use the smith use terrible form and not just in the squat. It is this abused form that I see causing much of the problems and resultant negativity towards the Smith.

But as I said before NOTHING beats the regular back squat for the majority of trainees.....yet that doesn't mean that everyone can be taught to squat correctly. Some people simply CANNOT squat due very crappy biomechanics. For these people the deadlift or trap bar deadlift is a far superior all round results producing movement.... and some can do Smith squats with results and LESS injury.

RG

 

[Hannibal]

*Frankenstien Voice* "Smith machine baaaaaaaaaaad"

In all seriousness, good thread.

 

[RottenWillow]

I had exactly the same impression of the Smith machine as Nonerz. The movement felt awkward and forced. Yeah I could handle more weight since I didnt have to balance the load, just lift it, but it felt like wearing a straight jacket.

Being only 5'6" and having a comparatively muscular lower body the squat feels real comfortable and natural to me but I wonder if the Smith would be a good choice for tall people.

 

[Lumberg]

Thanks for putting it into perspective RG. I used to hate Smith machines but now I just think the real thing is better. It's not the end of the world to squat in one.

I have found that they work very well for front squats though.

And I do like regular squats enough to spend some big bucks and drive up to the York factory outlet for a squat rack and some barbell weights. My work gym only has a SMith.

 

[The Shadow]

I never free bar squat anymore.

Smith Squats or front squats
Stiff deads
Hacks
leg ext and culrs

hit everything for me.

 

[SouthernBell]

Spatts, you said that in ref to the video of you squating you may have looked a little shakey because that was the first time you used the knee wraps. Why do they make you shakey. I was looking in to getting me some and I was wondering if this would be good or bad for my squat. I was thinking they would help stabalize my knees from shaking. I surely don't want to add anything that will make me more shakey.

SB