I was cruising the anabolic board today...

[silver_shadow]

wow great thread. i used to be one of those little guys on the anabolic board when all i was concerned about then was getting from 130lbs (ya i know i was a skinny bastard) to around 170 at first - so i could become a model! then as i saw good gains on test only cycles, threw away my modelling ambitions to get to 220. back then i spent all my time on that board and knew little about training, whatever i knew was the usual "BB split" and i tried to find those magical exercises which would make my pecs and arms grow. there was this one guy over there, a well known bro who if i remember correctly became a mod and would throw his weight around if someone openly opposed his cycling principles. i'm not too sure what happened but i don't think he's a mod anymore. anyway, this guy would use some insane amounts of gear (comprising all manner of exotic compounds) with one sole purpose - to be 180 @ 4%bf. there are still some really good bro's out there who do know their stuff though most of them are like i used to be. nowadays, since i've discovered that there is a wealth of info on this board, i spend most of my time here. earlier it used to be next to impossible for me to gain natty. now i can gain pretty quickly and i no longer think of myself as a hardgainer. i've also long thrown away my 1x wk split LOL.

 

[Madcow2]

It's an odd thing. BBing is convinced that success is 90% diet. For big juice dosages and in the sense of not eating enough (caloric excess) - yeah, I mean if you aren't going to eat enough to put on any weight we can't really go anywhere besides pure strength. However, once the dumb threshhold is crossed and you are willing to eat enough (let's assume not an idiot), training is huge. This is the key that decides how much muscle you are going to put on. You still need a stimulus and hypertrophy is about improving capacity, if you aren't systematically improving capacity there is no reason to build or retain more muscle than you have now.

More to the point, holding genetics constant people will gain more muscle with better training and most importantly retain more muscle post cycle (i.e. you can get your PCT and hormonal profile back but if your training doesn't reflect the need to maintain current musculature - your body will shed the muscle - use it or lose it).

The other thing I constantly find odd is that people don't notice the implications to training theory that a cycle brings into the mix. The first thing they generally find is that they can lift more weight and do more volume (bingo - progressive resistance and workload). Then they find they can recover faster (badabing - increased periodic workload due to frequency). And they notice throughout the cycle that their strength levels increase and most are trying trying to add reps or weight consistently (whoa - progressive resistance and improvement in fundemental strength). This is not rocket science and the implications should be night and day obvious but for some reason people tend not to think about it. I mean, yes, even without strict resistance exercise steroids can and do induce muscular weight gain (i.e. farmers and cattle and even among some HRT patients). But really, adding some form of resistance exercise to the mix kicks it off huge and there are reasons for this and the training is obviously a critical component which one would think should be maximized in order to reap the best possible results off a given cycle.

 

[Illuminati]

I agree, but I sure as hell hope you know I wasn't referring to guys like you, lol.....a lean 245 with a 700 deadlift is not the same as a guy 180 who dreams of one day doing rep work on the bench with 225.....most guys don't even aspire to weigh 245 lean, I was just saying the "LL Cool J look" and the "Brad Pitt Pecs" that 99% of those guys aspire to are MORE than attainable naturally.

These are the people, the "how to do I look like brad pitt," or "I need to get cut for spring break" that I was referring to too. These people that don't realize that you have to train year round to achieve your goals. You simply can't train just 12 weeks out of the year, so that you can look good for spring break. Working out and training should be a life time thing, and one that you enjoy every week, month after month, year after year. So many of people are in such a rush to get huge, that they throw the fundamentals of training out the door, and immediately jump on a cycle, because they dont want to put in the blood sweat and tears into training.

 

[Madcow2]

So many of people are in such a rush to get huge, that they throw the fundamentals of training out the door, and immediately jump on a cycle, because they dont want to put in the blood sweat and tears into training.

I'm not 100% convinced it's simply the shortcut or lack of dedication thing - although they certainly are common enough. For a good portion of recreational guys it seems to be mainly a lack of understanding the fundementals and how to go about it. There will always be people who don't want to put in the work, but a lot of guys are busting their ass and just don't seem to understand what needs to be done outside of going in and doing some stuff and hoping to grow from it.

 

[psychedout]

you forget Genetics. For hardgainers and low responsers those doses simply don't do anything after you get to 50lbs over your natural max, trust me I speak from experience...

But yes, I roll my eyes at some of the tiny men on there bragging about all the lean quality mass they put on everytime they cycle, the primo and tbol kiddies are the best... 5+ cycles and still weighing a mighty 160, maybe time to find another hobby.

I run a LOT of gear, I have to as I get maybe 1/4 the results from it that other guys would from the same dose. 1g a week 52 weeks a year is essential to keep me over 245 and lean..

Props to this statement. I train properly, eat 5000 calories per day, and I don't gain very much without them. I was blessed with very poor genetics.

Plus you have to factor in the pressure society places on youth to look good. Thats why I turned to steroids at the mighty age of 18. I had low self-esteem and low self-confidence. It was a battle between me and the pressures that society places on youth today. Not everyone gets affected to the extent that I do, but i'm that guy. The guy who felt that he had no choice but to do it. Turning to steroids has had good things and bad things. On the good side, my self esteem and confidence issues have entirely disappeared. On the flip side, you might say that steroids are my crutch then. On the good side, I knew if I was using, I better learn how to train the best, eat the best, and get into the best mindset. Maybe my cause and effect are backwards and it shouldn't be like that, but the bottom line is that it was. I can't go back in time and change anything. I wish I dealt with my issues surrounding cofidence, ego, self-esteem, depression, etc, through an acceptable facet (as I do nowadays), but whats done is done. I think its a rather condenscending viewpoint to look down at people who use steroids. Usually there is a deeper issue involved. Thats my 2 cents.

 

[Madcow2]

I think its a rather condenscending viewpoint to look down at people who use steroids. Usually there is a deeper issue involved. Thats my 2 cents.

You do realize that no one is doing that (maybe you were just adding a thought or different point) and the original post is essentially a commentary about how bad the general knowledge of basic training theory is in BBing. The idea put forth is that this and the resulting poor success rate of people's efforts is what leads a lot of these guys to drugs when in reality most times their goals are very achievable (they just don't know how to go about making consistent progress yet everyone believes themselves fairly competent since very few others know more).

 

[psychedout]

You do realize that no one is doing that (maybe you were just adding a thought or different point) and the original post is essentially a commentary about how bad the general knowledge of basic training theory is in BBing. The idea put forth is that this and the resulting poor success rate of people's efforts is what leads a lot of these guys to drugs when in reality most times their goals are very achievable (they just don't know how to go about making consistent progress yet everyone believes themselves fairly competent since very few others know more).

I guess I did go off on a bit of a tangent. Blah, its one of those days though. I am frustrated as hell with the administration at the University I attend. As it turns out they have schedule 3 (yes 3) final exams all during the same time frame and I am all worked up. I still got that impression somewhere along the line though. Maybe its a stretch, but one that I made nonetheless. I will agree that general knowledge about training is quite poor. I think the biggest issue has to do with frequency. Most bber's would agree that compound lifts are what you need to do. And I think most people could accomplish their goals on a single-factor routine, if everything else is in place. Hell, I would even consider my knowledge to only be adequate. I know the basics but not much behind them. I know to train the core lifts 2-3x per week, I know to not to workout more than 3-4 days a week, I know that failure and the pump aren't essential for a good workout or muscle growth, I know that adding pounds to the bar each week is what drives gains, I know periodized training is what you need if you want to get a total paltry up past 1400ish... Eh, maybe I know a bit more than I thought.

 

[swordfish151]

It was a SLOW day at work today, so I spent entirely too much time on the internet.

I was serfing through a lot of posts on the anabolic board and I noticed something pretty disturbing. The vast majority of guys on there are probably between 5'7 and 6'2 and weigh no more than 200lbs, maybe 210 or so for the guys on the taller end. They aren't professional athletes, but normal guys, college students, family men with careers, a lot of times very successful careers, and none of them really have out of this world goals. Maybe a guy 5'11 would like to weigh 220lbs with decent bodyfat. Nobody seems to have goals that are unattainable or unrealistic.

What I see is a complete (it almost looks deliberate) disregard for anything training-related. What I do see is a total waste of money on supplements and what I think of as a frightening imbalance where there is zero knowledge on proper training and eating ENOUGH, but chemist-level knowledge of drugs and ancillaries and nutritionist-level knowledge of the breakdown of various foods.

My point is that all of this SHOULD be so simple. If all you want is some more muscle and better body-composition and training is a serious hobby and not what you do for a living to support yourself/your family, all of your goals can be accomplished and surpassed with a solid knowledge of training theory and grasping the simple concept of calories in vs. calories out. Instead of researching exotic anabolic compounds and making your local GNC a fortune, you'd be better off reading Madcow's website and getting a big grocery order.

I have no problem with steroids, so don't get me wrong, but even steroids shouldn't be as complicated as they are made out. And in terms of most people's goals, they are totally unnecessary. Even the guys with more extreme goals can reach them with say 200-400mg of test a week, 200mg Deca......

Anyway, there was no point to this, just a semi-rant I guess. I understand that somebody aspiring to stand on a Mr. Olympia stage needs to do what they need to do.......I understand some people want to push their potential (I have fallen in here a lot of times)..but for the other, vast majority of the guys who lift to maybe be 6'1 and 220lbs with 11% bodyfat and respectable gym lifts, there is a much easier way to go about this.

I have to disagree here (ok ok start throwing the tomatoes) Anyway, its the ANABOLIC board...not the WEIGHT TRAINING BOARD. What is discussed there is ..ANABOLIC SUBSTANCES..not training, that is why we have this fine board here. That is why you dont see any talks about training, we would HOPE that a person would first understand the fundamentals of TRAINING AND DIET BEFORE even CONSIDERING the IDEA of AAS (again diet is not talked about there either..and a matter of fact...ITS NOT HERE EITHER) I dont think i have seen many 5X5 threads talking about diet or posting a diet split..so in fairness the wieght training board is geared towards...well weight training..that is why we have a diet board....I cant speak for all..but I do agree that there are those knuckleheads out there that want the "quick fix" Many of times you get guys that want to get huge, that they want to start a cycle but fail to understand that 3 meals a day is why they are not growing. That being said ...training is VERY VERY important....there are alot of us "juice heads" on ANABOLICS that understand this...and love it..i love to train, to lift, to eat and to understand better the dynamics of this...We just dont inject and hope the good ole AAS fairy will be so kind of slapping on some muscle...trust me there are alot of hardcore trainers over there...But i do agree that there are alot to just jump in and advice just to show "knowledge"....which is not the right way of going about things...but again i re-state that alot of the hardcore guys over in anabolic hope that the certain individual would understand or know how to lift (and have many years under his belt) before considering AAS...we dont always give out cycles like candy..beleive it or not..sometimes we shun individuals from it and let them know that all they need to know is how to EAT/TRAIN.

 

[Tweakle]

we would HOPE that a person would first understand the fundamentals of TRAINING AND DIET BEFORE even CONSIDERING the IDEA of AAS

That would be nice, but it's not true.. If people were forced to tell the truth on net polls and someone posts a how much can you lift/ what is your bf%/ how long have you been training poll on that forum it would be truely pathetic on average.

I recall a certain 'celeb' member bragging about hitting a 315 bench after 2 years of heavy juicing AND GH.. great, now you can hang with the high school football team.

And diet, well yes there should be some on the AAS board for the fat fucks asking 'how much winny do I need to get ripped' over and over again.

 

[psychedout]

That would be nice, but it's not true.. If people were forced to tell the truth on net polls and someone posts a how much can you lift/ what is your bf%/ how long have you been training poll on that forum it would be truely pathetic on average.

I recall a certain 'celeb' member bragging about hitting a 315 bench after 2 years of heavy juicing AND GH.. great, now you can hang with the high school football team.

And diet, well yes there should be some on the AAS board for the fat fucks asking 'how much winny do I need to get ripped' over and over again.

Cough *satch* cough.