Help with carb cycling.

[solarclimax]

If total carbs is 209 then how low should i drop it down to on low carb days, and how high on high carb days ?
I plan to keep the total amount of calories the same, by replacing carbs with fat .

 

[Sassy69]

Thanks diesel. I also have 7 meals a day, i have been on this eating plan for a couple of months now but i want to tweak it to cycle carbs. Here the meal plan i am going 2 tweak.

(P) = Protein... (C) = Carbohydrates... (F) = Fat... (Cals) = Calories

12:00 AM
2 whole eggs
4 egg whites
Oats, 80g
Black coffee
(P) 36.2 (C) 49.32 (F) 19.2 (Cals) 604.4

2:00PM
Tuna, can 100g
Whey with water 30g
Omega 3-6-9 Suplement
Multi -Vits
Banana
(P) 59 (C) 41.1 (F) 10.5 (Cals) 489.5

4:00PM
1x Chicken breast
Brown rice 50g
Peas, sweetcorn, carots, green beans 50g
Strawberries 200g
(P) 32.3 (C) 54.3 (F) 3.45 (Cals) 553

6:00PM
Steak average 250g
Brown rice 50g
Peas, sweetcorn, carots, green beans 50g
Apple
(P) 74 (C) 53 (F) 16 (Cals) 567

8:00PM
Whey with water 30g
(P) 27.3 (C) 0 (F) 0 (Cals) 127

10:00PM
Salmon 100g
Red pepper 50g
Coliflower 50g
Broccoli 50g
(P) 28.15 (C) 4.9 (F) 14.1 (Cals) 335.5

12:00PM
Low fat cottage cheese 125g
Whey 30g with 1 pint semi skimmed milk
14g flax seed oil
(P) 43.1 (C) 6.75 (F) 22.95 (Cals) 242

Total.. (P) 308.65 (C) 209.37 (F) 85.59 (cals) 3019

I know i should be getting no more than about 8 - 9 hours sleep because i need to wake up and start eating again but i'm lazy i need to work on it

OK here's what I would suggest - run it once & see how it works for you as far as energy. If you feel like absolute shit then I"ll suggest a change at the bottom.


Also depending on when you train what meal comes after training? I'd rather see just a protein + veggies meal after that vs. a protein + fat meal. Let me know and I may make adjustments to the suggested schedule.

3 day rotation (with no consideration to what time you train):

Day 1: high carbs - keep the diet as listed

Day 2: med carbs - Replace the brown rice in the 4 pm meal w/ same cals in fat.

Day 3: low carbs - Replace the brown rice in 4 pm & 6 pm meals w/ same cals in fat.

Day 4 = Day 1

This leaves you with just the 59 g carb in Meal 1.

Try this rotation twice. If you feel that you still have plenty of energy by the end of Day 3, then I'd suggest that you drop the banana altogether from Meal 1 & just stick w/ the oats on your next low carb day. If you do feel like absolute dogshit by the end of the low carb day, then keep it. But watch as you run the rotation a few more times - if you notice that your body is acclimating to the low carb day better, then drop the banana.

Also -- when do you train - what meal follows your training?

 

[solarclimax]

Thanks Sassy, here is my meal plan for lifting days wich i do 3 days a week, it's just about the same diet with potato instead of a banana, and the times change around slightly as you can see.

12:00 AM
2 whole eggs
4 egg whites
Oats, 80g
Black coffee
(P) 36.2 (C) 49.32 (F) 19.2 (Cals) 604.4

1:30PM
1x Chicken breast
Brown rice 50g
Peas, sweetcorn, carots, green beans 50g
Strawberries 200g
(P) 32.3 (C) 54.3 (F) 3.45 (Cals) 553

3:00PM
Tuna, can 100g
Omega 3-6-9 Suplement
Multi -Vits
Potato average 200g
(P) 34.2 (C) 41.1 (F) 10.8 (Cals) 369


3:30PM
Whey with water 30g
(P) 27.3 (C) 0 (F) 0 (Cals) 127

4:30PM
Weight Training


6:30PM
Whey with water 40g
Dextrose 30g
(P) 36.4 (C) 27.75 (F) 0 (Cals) 297.7

7:30PM
Steak average 250g
Brown rice 50g
Peas, sweetcorn, carots, green beans 50g
Apple
(P) 74 (C) 53 (F) 16 (Cals) 567

10:00PM
Salmon 100g
Red pepper 50g
Coliflower 50g
Broccoli 50g
(P) 28.15 (C) 4.9 (F) 14.1 (Cals) 335.5

12:00PM
Low fat cottage cheese 125g
Whey 30g with 1 pint semi skimmed milk
14g flax seed oil
(P) 43.1 (C) 6.75 (F) 22.95 (Cals) 242

Total.. (P) 311.65 (C) 237.12 (F) 86.5(cals) 3095.2

On cardio days (usually tuesday and thursday) it's the same as the first meal plan i posted, i usually do am cardio after having a banana and just recently i started having a 30gram protein drink with the banana before cardio. And when i do that i don't have the banana and protein at 2pm i just kinda swap it arround. I try to finish cardio at around 12 AM so i can have my first meal and everything follows as normal from there.
On days where i do neither weightlifting or cardio i just eat the first meal plan as normal.

:Edit: I deleted the post in the weightlifting forum, sorry about that i didn't know the site was having technical difficulties.

 

[Sassy69]

I would try it like I said - drop the 1 carb meal, then both carb meals, then high day again. Don't try to match it to your lifting days tho - for a carb cycle to work it really needs to go in a sequence. I've also never done carb cycling w/ the PWO dextrose -- that's more carbs -- my "low carb days" are down to just 1/2 c oatmeal (~25 g carb) or no complex carbs at all. Carb cycling isn't what you do if you are trying to build muscle mass or increase your strength -- the point is that it does short term manipulation to edge you down in bodyfat while getting regular refeeds before your metabolism slows down. Unless you reschedule your training to match your higher carb days, you just have to live w/ the food schedule & focus on bodyfat cutting as your goal. But it is much better at preserving muscle and giving you enough energy to not completely hate life like an on-goign low carb diet will.

One thing you can do if you want to at least match your training to the non-low days, you can do a 7 day schedule instead of a repeating 3 day schedule - which, if you training is based on a 7 day week, will alway hit different days w/ different amounts of carbs.

If you are really agressive you could do a 4 day cycle + 3 day cycle, e.g.:

Mon: Training day
- high carb day

Tues: non training day
- med carb day

Wed: training day
- med carb day

Thurs: non training day
- low carb day

Fri: training day
- high carb day

Sat: non training day
- med carb day

Sun: non-training day
- low carb day

On the repeated med carb days you could even alternate the meal that you pull the carb from - e.g. 1st med carb day, pull the 4pm rice & keep 6 pm rice, 2nd carb day, keep the 4 pm rice & pull the 6 pm rice, then the low day, pull both those rice meals.

If you find you have plenty of energy, then you could do the regular 3 day rotation during the week & repeat it on the last part of the week + 1 extra day of low carb to make it a 7 day schedule. This more aggressive and does hit one of your training days w/ a low carb day as well as adding a 2nd low carb day to your weekend. Depends on how your energy is and how aggressive your fat loss (vs strength or quality of training) goal is.

 

[solarclimax]

Thanks again Sassy, i think i have all the info i need to go ahead and start my carb cycling. I think i might start with the 4 day cycle + 3 day cycle and then a week or 2 later start the 3 day rotation with the extra low carb day, because on my 3 day a week lifting program i have what is supposed to be a light day on wednesdays so i could have that as 1 of the low carb days. I recon i can lose fat and gain strength, as i have only been lifting for 9 months with about 6 months lifting on proper routines. So i think i still have a lot of room for strength gains even whilst cutting.