Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Gaining fat but I havent changed a thing!!!

V

VeggieLifterChick

New member
I am really frustrated!!! I can not keep the fat off my body!!!!!!!! Grrrrr!!!!!!! I have been eating a really clean, strict diet, keeping things under 1700 calories, doing 45-60 min cardio 5 days a week, lifting hard, etc. I have been taking adipokinetix for 4 weeks. For about the first 2 weeks i lost fat, and now its coming back, and FAST. WTF?? This is not just my imagination. It is evident on the scale, in the mirror, and in clothing. What is going on? And how can I stop it and atleast maintain my results? 1700 calories is really adequate for fat loss. I weigh between 130 and 135. Below 1600 and I feel like I'm starving myself. Can anyone provide some insight as to what is going on and how to fix it?
 
I don't consciously try to cycle carbs. I do eat more on some days and less on other days.

As for water retention, I don't think thats the case. Unless love handles are made out of water.:D
 
I have to admit to eating, to a certain degree, intuitively. if I am hungry, regardless of whether I trained that day or will train, I eat. I do keep track of it on Fitday.com, though. I gravitate around 1700. Some days this week I ate 1600, most days I ate 1685, a day or two I ate 1800. I did 45 to 60 minutes of a high intensity workout Monday, Wednesday, Saturday. Tuesday I took it a little easier (still 40 mintues) and Thursday I only did 30 mins high intensity. Friday I worked so i didn't do any cardio or weights (I am a waitress, so I run around enough that its very active rest). I lifted hard enough to get to failure Monday Tues Weds and Thurs.
 
Well, no I don't really have any way to be sure. I will see if I can get my bf% checked tomorrow at the gym. Can calipers distinguish between fat and water weight? Maybe it is water, guess that's possible. Is there any way to really know?
 
How about stress? Isn't it exam time?

Sorry I don't have any other insight. Maybe INCREASE the cals? I lost fat on 1,800 - 2,000 & I'm 135# - or cycle the cals - your bod will get used to the low cal intake.
 
Cornholio said:
Double calories and cut cardio for the next two days
Click to expand...
:D That sounds like it's coming from an angel.... oh how it would be nice to stuff my face to that extent.... hmmm :idea:
 
Cornholio, that is more or less my weekend. I am much more lenient about what I eat on the weekends, though I tend to do one day of cardio. I'm afraid I have tried higher calorie diets and less cardio and thats what got me here in the first place. That is, fat.
 
Here is what I ate from Monday to Thursday this past week:

Monday 1731 kcal 218 cho/122 protein/45 fat
Tuesday 1685 kcal 162 cho/107 protein/53 fat
Wednesday 1569 kcal 162 cho/120 protein/46 fat
Thursday 1665 kcal 205 cho/113 protein/ 48 fat

I'm sure someone will say that my protein should be at 135 atleast, but then isn't the rule 1g per kg and not 1g per pound?
 
And as for my exercise:
Monday 40 mins FTITM (5 mins bike, 35 mins treadmill)
Squats and deadlifts at night

Tuesday lifted shoulders heavy, did 10 mins high intensity on the treadmill afterwards, also did ab work

Wednesday Lifted back and triceps heavy, did 50 mins cardio afterwards (10 mins treadmill fast walk/high incline, 20 mins elliptical trainer medium intensity, 10 mins treadmill fast walk/high incline, 5 min run on treadmill, then 5 min cooldown walk on treadmill of 4 mph and 3% incline)

Thursday 30 mins high intensity on the treadmill. I would have normally done chest and wanted to go for 50 mins again but I didn't have time.

Friday worked in diner, I count that as active rest because I run around

Saturday Ran 60 mins outside with my dog
 
spatterson said:


When do you do bi's and the rest of your legs?
Click to expand...

I don't do bis often, maybe every other week once. I'm lucky there, they grow really easily. As long as I do major muscle groups, like back and shoulders and chest, my biceps get big without my targetting them.

And as for the rest of my legs, well I guess by that you mean calves. I have been walking on high incline a lot on the treadmill and it makes my hams and calves sore enough that doing the standing calf raise seems like overtraining. I'm sure I'll get used to the incline soon enough and go back to targeting them with weights again.
 
Cut the carbs in half and increase the protein by the same amount. Keep the fat at 40 g/d. Give it 6 weeks and see what happens.

W6
 
This diet stuff really is subjective. It is annoying because no formulas really tell you what will work. Its trial and error, just like Spatts said.

I am going to give these lower numbers a try and see if it makes a difference with cho (150g or below), and I will try and get my protein up to 150g a day or more, but its tough for me being at school and being a vegetarian. It means a lot of cottage cheese and protein shakes. I am getting really tired of it. Things will get easier in June when I get my own place. I am really looking forward to that!

Does my cardio seem adequate or should I be doing it more often and longer? I can up it to 50 mins 5x a week. Is that too much or just right?
 
This diet stuff really is subjective. It is annoying because no formulas really tell you what will work. Its trial and error, just like Spatts said.

I am going to give these lower numbers a try and see if it makes a difference with cho (150g or below), and I will try and get my protein up to 150g a day or more, but its tough for me being at school and being a vegetarian. It means a lot of cottage cheese and protein shakes. I am getting really tired of it. Things will get easier in June when I get my own place. I am really looking forward to that!

Does my cardio seem adequate or should I be doing it more often and longer? I can up it to 50 mins 5x a week. Is that too much or just right?
 
I pretty much concur with W6. When cutting I think you need to have a higher protein intake and lower carbs. Being a vego or student or whatever is not a good excuse for not getting enough protein. If it's a real problem for you then you should just eat meat. But we've been through this before. Give it a try and see how it works.
 
Here's some protein sources I could get in a day:

1 cup egg beaters = 24g protein

1 slice of cheese = 4g protein

3 oz tofu = 8g protein

1 cup of Silk brand soy milk = 4g protein

.5 cup oatmeal = 5g protein

1 cup of cottage cheese = 26g protein

1 scoop of protein powder = 20g protein

Total = 92 grams of protein

Suppose I had a 40g serving of protein powder and the number is 112 grams. I could also add another .5 cup of oatmeal and it would be 117 grams.
 
I'm vegetarian, I'm cutting, and I'm getting over 200g of protein a day. Wanna know how? 26 frickin' egg whites a day, that's how! :mad: :sick: :sick:

...... with a bit of cottage cheese (the brand I buy, although not low fat, seems to contain basically no carbs). But that's getting deep-ended tomorrow, and for the first time in my 16-week diet odyssey, I will be using *some* powder.

I hate eating that many egg whites, for a lot of different reasons, but I have two over-riding, unchangeable passions in my life - to remain vegetarian, and to be the very best bodybuilder I can be within the dietary/pharmaceutical restrictions I have outlined for myself.

Oatmeal egg-white pancakes - it's the only way to go. Good luck, girlie, you can do it - really, you can do it. You've made great progress already.

Here, check this out:

Breakfast: oatmeal, eggwhite omelette with dash of cottage cheese, dash of salsa
Mid-morning: oatmeal, oatmeal eggwhite pancake with dash of cottage cheese, dash of salsa
Lunch: oatmeal eggwhite pancake with dash of cottage cheese, veggies
Snack: eggwhite omelette with dash of cottage cheese, dash of salsa, lots of veggies
Dinner: eggwhite omelette with dash of cottage cheese, dash of salsa, lot of veggies
 
Steelweaver, much respect to your iron willed dedication, but I think you might be insane. How in the world do you get that down every single day every single meal?
 
Pure terror of looking crap on stage!!! That's how! LOL! Really, ANYTHING is possible, depending on how badly you want it. I would have looked at this diet a year ago and barfed! Now it's just normal to me.

Although the following help: splenda, stevia, cinnamon, anise seeds, caraway seeds, basil, oregano, paprika, cayenne pepper, chili powder, curry powder, you get the picture ...

And I change veggies depeding on what's cheap and my mood - so broccoli some days, cabbage some days, mixtures most days ... :)

Honestly though, those oatmeal eggwhite pancakes are great! I don't have ANY problems eating those day in, day out - I really CAN live on those. It's the egg whites on their own that's so gross, although once in omelette form with spices they're not too bad either. I *could* use more powders I guess, but I hate being hungry more than I find the egg whites distasteful.

Oh, and weekly low fat high carb refeeds make everything tolerable. Go read about refeeds on the diet board - the blandest most boring diet can be made half sane with refeeds.

I wouldn't do this type of diet if I weren't doing it for a contest though - I'd go with something with a bit more variety - this type of plan is unsustainable in the long term, as it should be - I don't think it's healthy to eat a limited range of the same things all the time for very extended periods. I can't wait for my gaining phase!
 
i would drop carbs - keep them to raw/cooked veg and low GI fruit (or no fruit at all). Keep them arounf 50g a day.

drop cardio intensity..try a week of brisk walking FTITM on empty stomach, 30-60mins. Continue to lift though...sometimes mixing up cardio can help.
 
Welcome to the world of ESTROGEN.. which makes it easier for your body to store fat and keep it, plus has the magical benefit of decreasing circulating T3...

what to do long term??

though it may be that you are on the pill, if so.. getting off of it or changing to a lower dose may help.

ALA to a certain extent may help as well


for estrogenic fat loss oral yohimbine is helpful, though most get better results with topical.

arimidex may be an option, though at a low dose.. what exactly?? (and only if not on the pill)

an anabolic like anavar may help also (partly because it will suppress estrogen production)
 
Macrophage,

what is arimidex? where can you get it? also, why would topical yohimbe be better than oral? i've heard that the topical stuff is bogus. (i mean, no disrespect, but if it worked, wouldn't EVERYONE IN AMERICA be using it?)

is there anything else you know of that could suppress estrogen or get the excess out of your body?

VLC, i don't know if estrogen is your problem, but it sure as hell is mine. I'm using two supplements an MD with an interest in this stuff recommended to me:

1.) DIM
2.) calcium d-gluterate
 
VeggieLifterChick said:
I am really frustrated!!! I can not keep the fat off my body!!!!!!!! Grrrrr!!!!!!! I have been eating a really clean, strict diet, keeping things under 1700 calories, doing 45-60 min cardio 5 days a week, lifting hard, etc. I have been taking adipokinetix for 4 weeks. For about the first 2 weeks i lost fat, and now its coming back, and FAST. WTF?? This is not just my imagination. It is evident on the scale, in the mirror, and in clothing. What is going on? And how can I stop it and atleast maintain my results? 1700 calories is really adequate for fat loss. I weigh between 130 and 135. Below 1600 and I feel like I'm starving myself. Can anyone provide some insight as to what is going on and how to fix it?
Click to expand...


hmmmm- no dierespect to Wilson et al...but......I do NOT think that changing the macronutrient profile and keeping caloreis contant is the thing to do at this point. While keeping insulin levels lower via lower carb intake will probably help the body drop some fat, I think that main thing at this point is sluggish metabolism from too few calories.

Less than 1700 daily....minus 400 to 650 5 days per week via cardio.

She weighs 135. SO she is getting anywhere from ~1050 to 1250 per day?? NOt taking into account calories burned from lifting


VCL - take your temp first thing when you wake up in the morning and post it tomorrow please....
 
I will take the temperature tomorrow and post it. I just got up at 1:30 (um, can you tell I'm in college? I went to bed at like 4 last night because its finals time) and I feel really hot. I don't know if that's any indication, but I tend to feel like I heat up when I sleep. Does sleeping raise your body temp? That seems to be counterintuitive since you arent doing anything, but I definitely feel it. You know what else is odd? WHen I take adipo I get chilly, and it raises the body temp.

Macrophage: I am taking adipokinetix, which has yohimbine HCI in it. On weekends I have been taking a really low dose of it. I usually take 2 capsules 3x a day plus 1 gugulbolic 3x a day with it. On weekends I either take nothing at all or 1 capsule 2x.

I am also on birth control, but it is very low dose. It may be the lowest dose you can find. I believe it is 25 (mg? mcg? whatever the unit is) of estrogen.

Rez, I think mixing up the cardio sounds like a good idea. Instead of the high intensity later in the day as I have been doing, I will try lower intensity FTIT"Morning" this week.

Now, you all have me pretty damn confused about the total calorie and amount of carb questions. That's because each answer you're offering has either worked for you or has good scientific rationale behind it or both. Gladiola and I seem to have similar responses to carbs and sugar and interestingly we have about the same stats though I have a feeling she's got more lean mass than I have (but its hard to tell because she won't post her pic yet..nudge nudge). Gladiola has said that she can lose on 1800 with carb numbers where mine are IF they are extremely devoid of sugar. SHe checked out my Fitday record and said I can definitely clean up my carbs further. For instance, I have a bowl of high fiber cereal for breakfast, cracklin oat bran with soy milk. Compared to the stuff my roommates eat, that feels really clean. But compared to what you all eat, that's, uh, pretty "dirty." So I can make progress in that department. I took that into account this morning, when I ate whole grain oatmeal with 1 scoop of protein powder instead. Also, like I said before, Spatts' suggestion to drop the carbs to 150g sounded very reasonable, because its not drastically low but still lower than I'm used to. You can see my low days were like 165g. Rez suggested cutting the carbs to 50g. I'm afraid that would make me crazy. I tried sticking to 100g one day and I was a really, really mean person. I simply can't function there. There's no way I could do cardio. Maybe I would need to progress to that point by lowering the carbs over time?

Now, to clarify, what has concerned me is not a plateau. It is that this has been my diet for 4 or 5 weeks now and in the first two weeks I LOST some fat, and since last week or so I have been GAINING it back. This is what I am trying to figure out.

Thank you to everyone who has added their input, it is very helpful and valuable. I am trying to implement your advice.

*End of Long Post*
:D
 
evilqueen said:
I'm using two supplements an MD with an interest in this stuff recommended to me:

1.) DIM
2.) calcium d-gluterate [/B]
Click to expand...

Evilqueen: Is DIM a prescription product or supplement? What is calcium d-gluterate?

VLchick: Everyone has given you good nutritional advice. W6, Spatts, and MS have much more exp. than me, but I would also like to suggest you drop the oatmeal . I used to rotate cream of rice, oat bran, and oatmeal w/ in my breakfasts. EVERYTIME I'd have some oatmeal, I'd start holding water. I have no idea why :confused: I know it makes some people hold water and I didn't think it'd make such a difference, but it does for me.

I too am a student and I'm sure with the stresses of finals and the stresses of waiting tables, you're body is in stress mode :spin: Maybe you just need to give yourself a break. Hang in there.

BTW, I am also taking a fatburner w/ yohimbe HCI and guggulbolic. I am sweating much more than usual and I'm also really hot at night, esp. when I up my dose to twice a day instead of only once. I'm always hot and I have to put the air on to like 72, for me to get to sleep! :(
 
Maddie, that's really interesting! Maybe it is the adipo. I swear I always have to keep the windows open at night and its like 45 degrees lately and I still can't sleep under the covers. My roommate Melissa and I have been having wars about that. She keeps waking up and closing the windows cuz she's freezing and I open them when she goes back to bed because I'm still really hot.

The stress suggestion is also something to keep in mind. Could someone offer the science behind that? I have heard that stress can make you gain fat before and I would like to know more about the mechanisms behind that. Bump for w6 and others who know this technical stuff. ;)
 
I may have missed something, but why does Cornholio think you're only eating 1200-1300 cals per day? I thought you said you were on 1600-1700 plus lots more on the weekends which should be fine? If Corn is correct then I agree your cals are too low. Otherwise they may be too high. It depends on your gaols, but for show dieting I eat 1800-2000 cals per day and I suspect I have more LBM than VLC. But my refeeds are pretty strictly low/no fat and high carb. If you're eating lots of fat on the weekends then you may be setting yourself back. BC pill can't help, even at low dose. Do you have any way of measuring whether the weight gain is water, fat or muscle?? How long have you been dieting for? Is your cardio increasing, or staying the same from week to week? Are your lifts going up?
 
Cornholio said that I was getting 1200-1300 cal/day when he subtracted the amount of calories that cardio and lifting would burn.

Lifts are steadily increasing. I did 50 lb dumbells for overhead shoulder presses last week (like 3 or 4 reps) and 8 reps at 40 lb. Cardio has been increasing in intensity and I have been going longer than I had. I'm always "dieting" if by that you mean watching what I eat and keeping track. Atleast since January.

I can tell its fat and not water by how things look and feel. Its water and air when I have my period. That just feels like everything is bloated. I'm not bloated. I'm gaining fat.
 
MS said:
I may have missed something, but why does Cornholio think you're only eating 1200-1300 cals per day? I thought you said you were on 1600-1700 plus lots more on the weekends which should be fine? If Corn is correct then I agree your cals are too low. Otherwise they may be too high. It depends on your gaols, but for show dieting I eat 1800-2000 cals per day and I suspect I have more LBM than VLC. But my refeeds are pretty strictly low/no fat and high carb. If you're eating lots of fat on the weekends then you may be setting yourself back. BC pill can't help, even at low dose. Do you have any way of measuring whether the weight gain is water, fat or muscle?? How long have you been dieting for? Is your cardio increasing, or staying the same from week to week? Are your lifts going up?
Click to expand...

What I said was taking into consideration her cardio - her total caloric intake is anywhere form 1050 and a little higher. Actually less if you subtract the calories form weight training. IMO - too few calories. Either bump up the toal calories slightly from protein/fat ot cut back on cardio.

The idea behing the morning temp is to roughly judge MBR. YOu should be a minimum of 98 to be in a good state of fat burning. Adipo will throwe that off, so take the temp after at least 6-8 hours of bed.
 
VLC, a Tanita bf scale is only $100 and it is a good general measure to track your bf. Certainly dont be a slave to it as it WILL vary due to dehydration and amount of food in your system, but it is quite accurate in general.

I checked it maybe 4 times to hydrostatic tests at university and it is accurate to 1% of the "gold standard".

Tips to get good readings:
Always measure at full hydration. Measure when you first rise and it will show a higher reading.
Mesure at the same time every day after the same number of meals.

I dont know how much it eases me to be able to get a reliable APPROXIMATION in my own bedroom. Mmmm....am i getting fatter, lets see. Its better then the caliper i think to measure the difference between water and fat. Go to Walmart, buy one, use it every day for a week, see if the like it, and if not take it back.
 
O i forget to mention that i am also a vegertarian and i have pushed my lbm up to 170 over the years. I eat 4 dozen of the largest egg whites (jumbo in amerika) every day.

I dont advise counting protein from oatmeal and such as it is certainly inferior type. Eggs are the very best, better then any meat. I say only count your eggs as your protein intake when figuring the amount and any little help you get from your oats and such is just a little bit extra.
People will disagree with me, but protein types are not all equal in quality for muscle building.
 
magdelana said:
I dont know how much it eases me to be able to get a reliable APPROXIMATION in my own bedroom. Mmmm....am i getting fatter, lets see. Its better then the caliper i think to measure the difference between water and fat. Go to Walmart, buy one, use it every day for a week, see if the like it, and if not take it back.
Click to expand...


It's a better appoximation than a BI scale, I guarantee you that.....

Have you ever used one?? If so, then I am sure you realize that the reading can vary as much as +-4% within an hour after eating.....
 
Actually I have a Tanita scale and I have found it to be unreliable and inaccurate. It says I'm like 28-29% body fat, but that's not at all close to the caliper measurements. In fact, I got my caliper reading 5 weeks ago and it was 21.7%. Before that, a different trainer measured me at 20%. The scale said I was 29% at the time. And it has said that I am both 26 and 29% bf in the same day.

Although, you did mention that the scale costs $100 and the one I have costs $45 so perhaps the one you are referring to is of better quality than the one I have.
 
Last edited:
VeggieLifterChick said:
Actually I have a Tanita scale and I have found it to be unreliable and inaccurate. It says I'm like 28-29% body fat, but that's not at all close to the caliper measurements. In fact, I got my caliper reading 5 weeks ago and it was 21.7%. Before that, a different trainer measured me at 20%. The scale said I was 29% at the time. And it has said that I am both 26 and 29% bf in the same day.

Although, you did mention that the scale costs $100 and the one I have costs $45 so perhaps the one you are referring to is of better quality than the one I have.
Click to expand...


Girlie - a better quality one will not change the way it calculates bf.


worthless

A mirror is better......
 
TOOK THE PHOTOS LAST NIGHT!
I didn't realize till after we got started that my friend was using film & not a digital camera, but he said they should be processed by Fri or Mon.

Gladiola has said that she can lose on 1800 with carb numbers where mine are IF they are extremely devoid of sugar.
Click to expand...
You are doing more cardio than me. Actually I didn't mean to suggest that you should eat 1,800 cals (or suggest any total caloric intake) -> I just wanted to make the point that QUALITY of carbs & having the cals be 100% clean was WAY more important than total # of cals. (Even though science proves that it's cals in vs. cals out - that is NOT how it works in my body!). I think total caloric intake is dependent on SO many factors, I wasn't trying to suggest one for you, sorry for the confusion.

Rez suggested cutting the carbs to 50g. I'm afraid that would make me crazy.
Click to expand...
Ditto here. There are some things I am just NOT willing to do for my physique (I know, blasphemy for me to say!) and the way I feel when I'm under 100g carbs is so awful that it's in the "UH UH, not gonna do it, not worth it" category.

How much longer till you're done with exams? I would put doing well on exams as priority #1. Getting in the workouts & quality workouts as priority #2 ( I mean priority with relation to health), then sticking to a clean, healthy, sugar-free diet as your next goal & if you lose fat, great, if not, you will when you're done exams - or make changes at that point in time when you have energy & time to focus on figuring out all these complex & confusing variables. Maybe I'm too conservative....
 
Gladiola said:


How much longer till you're done with exams? I would put doing well on exams as priority #1. Getting in the workouts & quality workouts as priority #2 ( I mean priority with relation to health), then sticking to a clean, healthy, sugar-free diet as your next goal & if you lose fat, great, if not, you will when you're done exams - or make changes at that point in time when you have energy & time to focus on figuring out all these complex & confusing variables. Maybe I'm too conservative....
Click to expand...

I'll be done in about two weeks. Your advice sounds good and I am indeed prioritizing in that order, but unfortunately I have a fire lit under my ass. See, on May 9 (next Thurs) I am going to Charleston for my boyfriend's graduation from the citadel. And that's one of those wear dresses-not much clothing cuz its hot there -special occasion-impress his friends with your hot body-kind of thing. So gaining pudge now is highly, HIGHLY undesirable.

Its probably counter productive to have that on my mind AND stress about school...not sure what to do....I suppose that's why I might seem impatient. I apologize for that. Really, I have long term goals in mind. Just sucks because I wanted to look good for this. And how I looked when I took my progress pics on April 17th was good enough...but now I feel like I'm starting to look like I did in February again. (I am referring to my progress pics, posted at www.PictureTrail.com/veggielifterchick You will probably wonder why I made this known because I don't have anything amazing to show off, as do people like Spatts and HardBodyGirl et al. Just a little disclaimer...)
 
By the way, you know how its before 10 am and I'm awake and posting? That's cuz I haven't gotten to sleep yet.:mad: I just finished a paper that's due today in place of a final.
 
Rez suggested cutting the carbs to 50g. I'm afraid that would make me crazy.

u guys..its not that bad! seriously! there are tricks i have learned that make u feel full....ie fibre!

make sure your carbs are from raw vegies. broccolli etc also add things like pysllum husks to your meals, in 1 serve it has 1 carb, 10 cals and plenty of fibre.

your body will get used to it. But dont keep it at 50g every day.
On weight training days bump it up, but keep it to your first 3 meals only.
 
rez said:
Rez suggested cutting the carbs to 50g. I'm afraid that would make me crazy.

u guys..its not that bad! seriously! there are tricks i have learned that make u feel full....ie fibre!

make sure your carbs are from raw vegies. broccolli etc also add things like pysllum husks to your meals, in 1 serve it has 1 carb, 10 cals and plenty of fibre.

your body will get used to it. But dont keep it at 50g every day.
On weight training days bump it up, but keep it to your first 3 meals only.
Click to expand...

CUTTING calories will not help this problem.....besides no carbs after training is not a good idea either....
 
rez said:
Rez suggested cutting the carbs to 50g. I'm afraid that would make me crazy.

u guys..its not that bad! seriously! there are tricks i have learned that make u feel full....ie fibre!
Click to expand...
I would LOVE to hear more tips on this :) If it really is not so bad. My horrible sugar addiction complicates matters. I'm fighting cravings all the time, but when carbs are too low, I find I can't hold it together & I eat sweets in a near panic state. I figure better to have 150 g healthy carbs then to eat sugar if I can't stay in control.

The other problem is that I lift Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, & Friday. Sat & Sun I usually do cardio, & every other Sunday I do BodyPump (muscular endurance - light weight & REALLY hi reps class) followed immediately by a step class. My body needs glucose all the time! :(
 
Girl, I'm an ENGLISH MAJOR!

VeggieLifterChick said:
By the way, you know how its before 10 am and I'm awake and posting? That's cuz I haven't gotten to sleep yet.:mad: I just finished a paper that's due today in place of a final.
Click to expand...

VLC, I totally know what you're feeling b/c all of last week and monday was about like yours! :(
Having to worry about your food/body at this time is not THAT imp. I understand you got that graduation thing next week. Don't worry about it. You've got some nice biceps girl. I'm here in FL and it's been VERY hot lately. So just wear a cute sleeveless tankdress to show off those bis, and you're set!
You really put some size on them since Feb and I can def. tell a diff. It must be all those trays you gotta carry at the job, huh? lol! :)
 
Last edited:
i have read this in another older thread on the boards, that yohimbine does not work in the presence of insulin; and also yohimbine + carbs induces a greater insulin response than just carbs alone. so, the adipo that you are taking might actually be working against you.
 
do you girls really have that low maintenance levels?

I`m a pretty scrawny male and i need to eat at least 3500 to gain anything and like 2900-3000 to cut.
 
Gladiola, I have done suprising amount of low-carb dieting. If you want to know anything about what I have done, ask away.

And after a few days with low to zero carbs, you get used to it. I personally have found it easier to cut carbs to zero, get over the headache, then bring them back up *gradually* until they are at the target level. I train far too much and too often to manage any real sort of rotation-type diet, except an extreme on like a CKD, where I plan all of my activities around the diet.
 
Certainly cannot agree with Cornholio that the Tanita is worthless.

Is the mirror better? Better for what exactly? The mirror, the caliper, the BF scale are all single tools not the last word on how much BF you have.

1) mirror, good for seeing your hardness, am i puffy or not? Cant always tell if the thicker skin is fat or water however in the mirror
2) The caliper, ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PERSON USING IT. Also, how many measures do they take and how nice is the caliper? Can also be affected by level of hydration.
3) BF scale ,yes they all use electric impedence to figure BF but can give good approximations if used correctly.

Use them all if you can, DONT rely on any single one i think

VLC, the readings you have in one day that change 3% (26-29) could only be cause you were hydrated at one reading and dehyraded the second. Mesure the same time every day after the same number of meals and make sure you are fully hydrated. Use it this way and it is a good mesure of fat increasing or decreasing. (remember in your menses it will jump a little because of the more water)

The more expensive one i mention makes reading in .5% amounts. Like 10.5, 11, or 11.5. Yours is fully percent like 10, 11, 12 and will go up or down to closest full percent. No other different between what i mention and you have now.

o yes, i swear i am not a tanita salesperson :D
 
magdelana said:
Certainly cannot agree with Cornholio that the Tanita is worthless.
Click to expand...

hehehehe...you don't have to agree with me...somethings are true whether you believe them or not.....

.....funny though that you listed it dead last.

:)
 
Any method that cannot accomodate changes in hydration levels or cannot exclude visceral bodyfat is useless to a bodybuilder. That puts Tanita well below the bottom of the useful scale in my books.
 
Arioch said:
Gladiola, I have done suprising amount of low-carb dieting. If you want to know anything about what I have done, ask away.

And after a few days with low to zero carbs, you get used to it. I personally have found it easier to cut carbs to zero, get over the headache, then bring them back up *gradually* until they are at the target level. I train far too much and too often to manage any real sort of rotation-type diet, except an extreme on like a CKD, where I plan all of my activities around the diet.
Click to expand...

ide like to know info..though dont know what to ask..maybe u could post your low carb diet.

I personally have tried zero-low carb and it awful. I have to have at least 40-50g consisting of mainly vegetables..no grains etc.

if you fill up on these..meals become pretty big, and choosing veg w high fiber is a must! this will make u full.
i also make sure that if im hungry after ive finished a meal, ill rather have a black tea or diet jello...often a second serving isnt the solution. o and ofcourse H20!
 
I will post the details on Monday. Will be enjoying quality time this weekend.

I generally get my fiber via the supplement route using psyllium husks. This may not be the greatest, but the lower the carbs the quicker I get into ketosis.

Some people just cannot handle the ultra-low carb routine, and it is not the best to gain mass on. My wife would be one example, as she tried for three weeks and went schizo, even more so than usual.

Brief description of how I trained during the CKD:
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=134442&pagenumber=2
 
I think you will find in general that women do not do as well on ultra low carb/keto diets. Of course there are always exceptions, and I have anecdotally noticed that addition of AAS seems to improve a woman's tolerance for low carbs. Aside from feeling like death on keto diets, the majority of women that try them seem to have unacceptable rebound fat gain afterwards so all in all I wouldn't worry if you can't stick to no carb dieting. Just reduce your carbs (preferably cycle them high and low) and stick to the high fiber/low GI stuff as much as possible.
 
Arioch said:
I generally get my fiber via the supplement route using psyllium husks. This may not be the greatest, but the lower the carbs the quicker I get into ketosis.
Click to expand...

yes! this is awsome...but youve got to be careful not to go overboard w it, otherwise you'll be in the toilet every 5 mins;)
 
Well just from the discussion on the stress/cortisol/fat gain thread I am pretty convinced that stress was the cause of this odd fat gain. It was about 4-5 pounds worth, from 132 to 136/7 according to the scale. And all in the gut, in the form of a spare tire (especially love handles). The graduation I am going to is exactly one week from today. I'd be really happy if I dropped 3 or 4 pounds OF FAT by then. I know that sounds like a lot to drop in one week, but its not an unreasonable goal, is it??

If I somehow managed to get, say, 170g protein (eat fish), 45g fat, and maybe 100g cho, did 60 mins cardio medium intensity and kept lifting, would that be enough to reach my goals? I have been eating about the same numbers just the reverse in carbs and proteins and doing more like 45 mins cardio. Would the switch be enough to do it?

And yes, I did read Spatts' last minute jitters thread. I'm not looking to drop water 2 days out. I'm looking to drop 3 pounds of fat in 7 days.
 
VeggieLifterChick said:
If I somehow managed to get, say, 170g protein (eat fish), 45g fat, and maybe 100g cho, did 60 mins cardio medium intensity and kept lifting, would that be enough to reach my goals? I have been eating about the same numbers just the reverse in carbs and proteins and doing more like 45 mins cardio. Would the switch be enough to do it?

Click to expand...

No offense - but that is 1485 calories - less than what you WERE averaging....why would you decrease them???
 
VLC - are you on any supps??? If you drop the cals and do that much cardio you are going to lose a good bit of lean mass. It also appears to me that that your sleep schedule is really messed up. Spats has enough mass and has built a metabolism that will allow her to do quick fix loss without much long term damage. At some point you are going to have to up your cals, perhaps cycle your carbs and train your butt off to solve this problem.
 
I think you will find in general that women do not do as well on ultra low carb/keto diets. Of course there are always exceptions, and I have anecdotally noticed that addition of AAS seems to improve a woman's tolerance for low carbs. Aside from feeling like death on keto diets, the majority of women that try them seem to have unacceptable rebound fat gain afterwards so all in all I wouldn't worry if you can't stick to no carb dieting. Just reduce your carbs (preferably cycle them high and low) and stick to the high fiber/low GI stuff as much as possible.
Click to expand...


This is very true. The weight comes off fast but it's also just as easy to gain it all back by eating what would have been your maintenance calories prior to the diet.

When you cut carbohydrates from your diet, your body turns to proteins and fats to make the sugar derivatives (otherwise known as ketones) to supply your brain and muscle, but it
also has to lower your overal metabolic rate to make this happen.
Your liver is working overtime to make this happen. And once you eat carbohydrates again in any normal portion (i.e. 30-40% of your calories), your liver is gone take every bit of sugar and store it up. Furthermore, because you have been in a state of ketosis or starvation, you have lowered you metabolism, so you will have to exercise again to rev it back up once you go back to a normal diet.

This is why most successful low carb dieters consider it a lifestyle change not simply a diet over a few weeks.

I would be very interested to know if there is a way of going on the low carb diet for 4-8 weeks and then going back to eating normal maintenance calories and carbs without gaining the weight right back.
 
Last edited:
littlesurfer said:




but it also has to lower your overal metabolic rate to make this happen.
Click to expand...


Please state your reasoning behind this....
 
If you were out in the desert and you had no food, for the first 24
hours, your liver would break down the sugars/carbohydrates it had stored away. Then, it will turn to breaking down your stored fat and protein (in the form of muscle) to keep your blood ketone (a product of fat metabolism that the brain can use instead of glucose/sugar) levels high enough for your brain to function. At the same time, it will tell the rest of your cells (which it considers less important) to reduce their metabolism so that there is enough energy to go around for your brain and heart. This is called starvation mode.

When you reduce your carbohydrates to a level less than 20 grams a day, you have automatically within a period of 24 hours, shifted your body into what it sees as starvation mode. Hence, it will signal your cells (muscle, skin, kidney, etc), other than those of your brain and heart, to reduce their metabolic activity. Thus, your overall metabolism goes down.


I would love to hear your ideas.
 
littlesurfer said:
If you were out in the desert and you had no food, for the first 24
hours, your liver would break down the sugars/carbohydrates it had stored away. Then, it will turn to breaking down your stored fat and protein (in the form of muscle) to keep your blood ketone (a product of fat metabolism that the brain can use instead of glucose/sugar) levels high enough for your brain to function. At the same time, it will tell the rest of your cells (which it considers less important) to reduce their metabolism so that there is enough energy to go around for your brain and heart. This is called starvation mode.

When you reduce your carbohydrates to a level less than 20 grams a day, you have automatically within a period of 24 hours, shifted your body into what it sees as starvation mode. Hence, it will signal your cells (muscle, skin, kidney, etc), other than those of your brain and heart, to reduce their metabolic activity. Thus, your overall metabolism goes down.


I would love to hear your ideas.
Click to expand...


That's not necessarily true. Are you assuming a hypocaloric diet?
20 grams of carbs on a 3000 calories diet will NOT shift the body into a starvation mode. I thought perhaps you were referring to reduced T-3 production while on an extended low carb diet. Liver and glycogen stores are usually 500-600 grams worth. The body will transform a protein molecule into glucose. So there will not be a starvation mode on a calorie-rich, although carb reduced diet.

Ketosis is easily acheived on 200 grams of carbs per day along with ala.

Forming ketones is not necessarily a marker of metabolic rate declining.
 
The state of ketosis, where the body is required to make ketones out of fats and protein, typically triggers starvation mode.

I think the reason for this is that the body needs to expend a lot more energy to break down fats and proteins into ketones. This is why eating 2000 low carb calories causes you to lose weight, where as eating 2000 moderate carb calories would not.

If you sufficiently increase your calories above your maintenance calories, then even if they are eating low carb you are taking in enough calories to compensates for the excess energy your body uses to break down the proteins and fats. But at this point you wouldn't be losing weight.

I had a hard time even eating my maintenance calories while doing low carb b/c it suppresses my appetite.

btw, I'm not a doctor or a med student. This is only information that I've read or been told.

my current diet:
fruits for breakfast
protein (lean) + a little carb for lunch
protein + fat for dinner

I am certainly not losing like I was when I avoided the carbs completely so if you think my reason for avoiding low carb is wrong please let me know. thanks.
 
Last edited:
Temple, supps are creatine after lifting, flax oil, adiopkinetix stacked with guggulbolic, and a multivitamin. I have glutamine around too. My sleep schedule is wayyy fucked up right now, that's true. I'm working on it. But I do tend to get more than 8 hours. By the way, you gave me some guidelines for a good lifting program a couple months ago, and I have been following that except I've been doing it on a different schedule (instead of eod lifting I've done it ed during weekdays). And I have made some gains. (I wanted to put that in there to counter your "at some point you will have to work your butt off" - I am!).

I would consider not doing cardio if it would be more beneficial not to do it. I am just trying to figure out the most effective way to drop my stress-fat pounds in this week before the special occasion. I'll go back to a normal, good schedule after with adequate calories.

Corn, I hope you didn't take that as a slight. I respect and appreciated your advice about the high/low calorie thing, but I feel quite confident that the problem is stress, and that it isn't a lagging metabolism. the ol' "cutting = 9-12x your weight" puts my range at 1233 to 1644 kcal. So although 1485 is way lower than I am used to, its more than 10x my weight and its only for a week.
 
VeggieLifterChick said:
Corn, I hope you didn't take that as a slight.
Click to expand...

I don't.

I just don't like to see people wasting time and effort.

If you think cortisol is the culprit - do you not see that reducing calories further will make that situation WORSE??

End of rant.

Good luck
 
A quote from MS on a different thread:

"Never forget the triad for optimal bodybuilding is training, nutrition and REST. If you short change yourself on any of these you will get less than optimal results whether gaining mass or dieting for a show."

Severe restriction of calories without the use of AAS will result in the loss of lean mass. Optimal training is not possible without adequate nutrition. Training five days straight does not give your body time for adequate recovery unless you are incorporating some of the things that Spat's and some of the others use and if you are training on that level you then have to up the calories to support it. Rest does not mean sleep only - it means days off to recover.
 
in my case, i can only exercise for about 30mins a day light-mod cardio. it sux, but my back is still not 100%..so thats the way its got to be.'
my cals are under 1500 - more like 1300. my carbs as i think ive stated before only come from vegies, and occasional straw/blueberries.

i think this is fine because of my little amount of strenous exercise.
Vegie chick-
lower you carbs but NOT cals! theres a difference. Good quality carbs w high fibre is easy...do some research. An excellent book is BODY BUSINESS by donna aston.
 
Um, you all are gonna hate me....but I think it was just PMS-related bloating. :xeye: I wasn;t due for my period for like 2 weeks so I didn;t expect this...but this morning I woke up and I weighed 129 instead of 138...And I have my period...My waist has grown an inch since before finals, from 28 to 29, so I did gain fat as I said, but not nearly as much as I was freaking out about. I did learn a lot though! :(
 
Do women go through a second puberty or something in their late teens/early twenties? This never happened to me before, atleast not to such an extent. And I feel like my body has become more resistant to fat loss too. Or maybe I'm just unlucky.:confused:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
500mgs a week of primo, how much can I gain?
Replies
12
Views
1K
ceo
ceo
A
boosting my lean mass as a female
Replies
12
Views
2K
Quadsweep
Quadsweep
Wookie1
Approved Log Fat Loss and Recovery Journey
2 3 4 5
Replies
410
Views
30K
Tiger Salman Khan
Tiger Salman Khan
hypogaeum
Approved Log Testosterone HGH Retatrutide Log - Sponsored by UGL OZ
Replies
16
Views
942
the_alcatraz
the_alcatraz
Dr.Dolittle
Approved Log 2025 IFBB debut cycle and progress Log
2 3 4 5
Replies
430
Views
33K
Raptor Rep
Raptor Rep
Top Bottom