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Ethergels
- Thread starter Lojack
- Start date
Lojack said:
The Boldione/1-T combination has been working very well so far, but is not a necessity as 1-T is working very well on its own also. I would recommended it definitely if you are sensitive to the lethargic feeling that sometimes comes with low estrogen levels caused by 1-Test, as Boldione does aromatize somewhat. It is pretty moderate in this regard though (25-50% of testosterone), so gyno is not a big concern for most users (I haven't had any complaints yet at all). Also if you are planning to hit or exceed the maximim recommend dose on the gels, as the two do compliment each other very well (one estrogenic, one not) and may provide better gains compared to just taking more 1-T on its own.
- Bill
Re: Re: Ethergels
I am starting to think that the lethargy and maybe even the libido decrease is not an estrogen related phenomenon. Other non aromatizable steroids are not known to do this. I think it is some phenomenon that we just can't explain right now
w_llewellyn said:
I am starting to think that the lethargy and maybe even the libido decrease is not an estrogen related phenomenon. Other non aromatizable steroids are not known to do this. I think it is some phenomenon that we just can't explain right now
Re: Re: Re: Ethergels
I have always been of the belief that the loss of libido was related to the less androgenic nature of 1-Test, and not estrogen. Numerous studies have shown non-aromatizable steroids, like DHT, to support libido.
I've never noticed lethargy, well above the ususal level anyway, on any steroid, aromatizing or not. I thought it an odd link, but its acceptance made me think I was just not sensitive to it. Interesting idea.
Infrequent reports of nipple sensitivity even though it shouldn;t aromatize, intrinsic irritation, inexplicable lethargy.. The is one odd little steroid here....
- Bill
pa1ad said:
I have always been of the belief that the loss of libido was related to the less androgenic nature of 1-Test, and not estrogen. Numerous studies have shown non-aromatizable steroids, like DHT, to support libido.
I've never noticed lethargy, well above the ususal level anyway, on any steroid, aromatizing or not. I thought it an odd link, but its acceptance made me think I was just not sensitive to it. Interesting idea.
Infrequent reports of nipple sensitivity even though it shouldn;t aromatize, intrinsic irritation, inexplicable lethargy.. The is one odd little steroid here....
- Bill
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ethergels
1-test is pretty androgenic though. I have noticed lethargy on certain compounds, usually the ones that are more liver toxic.
I also have some theories on bitch tits that i don't really discuss cuz i think people are not ready to accept. I think that just increases in IGF-1 in the body can cause a flare up. Some steroids do that even ones that do not aromatize. And GH can cause flare ups, probably cuz of the IGF-1. Also, androgens tend to up-regulate estrogen receptor density in the breast so after the cycle you can really have a rebound when estrogen comes back.
anyway, i lost my train of thought, bye
w_llewellyn said:
1-test is pretty androgenic though. I have noticed lethargy on certain compounds, usually the ones that are more liver toxic.
I also have some theories on bitch tits that i don't really discuss cuz i think people are not ready to accept. I think that just increases in IGF-1 in the body can cause a flare up. Some steroids do that even ones that do not aromatize. And GH can cause flare ups, probably cuz of the IGF-1. Also, androgens tend to up-regulate estrogen receptor density in the breast so after the cycle you can really have a rebound when estrogen comes back.
anyway, i lost my train of thought, bye
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ethergels
Yes, but not being 5-alpha reducable it does have a better ratio of activity than does testosterone. In my opinion not too much comes near the activity of testosterone here also, regardless of index values.
Interesting observation. Again, for me, aside from my normal laziness, I usually don't notice this.
If nothing else, this is a very interesting theory. And it does make some sense if the other possible links are all eliminated.
With that line of thinking I have to say you are alright Pat. I don't care what everyone says about you
- Bill
pa1ad said:
Yes, but not being 5-alpha reducable it does have a better ratio of activity than does testosterone. In my opinion not too much comes near the activity of testosterone here also, regardless of index values.
Interesting observation. Again, for me, aside from my normal laziness, I usually don't notice this.
If nothing else, this is a very interesting theory. And it does make some sense if the other possible links are all eliminated.
With that line of thinking I have to say you are alright Pat. I don't care what everyone says about you
- Bill
Very interesting comment on the estrogen receptor upregulation BTW, especially given the fact that androgens and estrogens play opposing roles here. If you have the ref I'd love to go pull it. I'll swap you for the likely inaccurate reference to 1-androstenedione aromatizing, and even throw in the one showing womem to get much better oral bioavailability on free testosterone than men to boot.
- Bill
- Bill
Thinking outside the box, I was pondering this (cycling 1-AD and Andro spray) my libido is affected a little, but I am married so hard to say 
I was thinking it all relates to how your brain transmits or receives and the one thing in common here is Test...What if your body reacts to elavated Test differently at first and then as you do more cycles it levels out.
No idea, just a thought...but I do think Brain transmition is the key.
I was thinking it all relates to how your brain transmits or receives and the one thing in common here is Test...What if your body reacts to elavated Test differently at first and then as you do more cycles it levels out.No idea, just a thought...but I do think Brain transmition is the key.
blackdream71
New member
hey BILL these 1-TEST ETHERGELS are working really great for me, I started my cycle 4 weeks ago, week 1 i weighed 233, week 4 i now weigh 249, i'm taking 9 softgels per day, pretty good gains, i've made better gains on this stuff than on some gear cycles i have done,LOL, i am noticing limp dick these past couple weeks though, i just can't get a rise without the trusty VIAGRA......
latinus_spicticus
New member
Honestly, what is the advantage of using ethergels vs. Syntrax's sauce? Ethergels contain 25mg of 1-test ether and Sauce contains the exact same ingredient at 75mg per cap. I know that the 1-test ether in the 'gels' are suspended in oil, but does that make up for three times less dosage compared to Sauce? They are both the same price per cap, so I don't see why anyone would want to use ethergels vs. sauce. If fat is required to process the PH, then you could swallow some flax or sunflower oil with your Sauce caps and get the same effect as the ethergels, right?
Maybe Syntrax is using fake 1-test and I am totally off base here, but Ethergels seem like a rip-off compared to Sauce. They are the same exact thing (except in a gelcap w/a small amt of fat) and cost three times as much on a mg per mg basis. What am I missing here? I am not trying to flame or discount molecular nutrition, but something is very odd about people buying Ethergels instead of form of 1-test ether that is 3x as cheap (Sauce).
Lastly, if the adverse mood/lethargy sides are due to low estrogen, do you think a estrogen site competitor like clomid would alleviate these sides?
Maybe Syntrax is using fake 1-test and I am totally off base here, but Ethergels seem like a rip-off compared to Sauce. They are the same exact thing (except in a gelcap w/a small amt of fat) and cost three times as much on a mg per mg basis. What am I missing here? I am not trying to flame or discount molecular nutrition, but something is very odd about people buying Ethergels instead of form of 1-test ether that is 3x as cheap (Sauce).
Lastly, if the adverse mood/lethargy sides are due to low estrogen, do you think a estrogen site competitor like clomid would alleviate these sides?
latinus_spicticus said:
I'd go into a big long thing explaining about how much better my design is, and how the "take with flax oil" is rediculous, but if you look at my site you will see this pretty well addressed in the Q & A.
Simply put, nobody is gaining 15 lbs in 4 weeks on Sauce or any of the other powdered 1-test caps.
And Blackdream took only 225mg mind you, and has used 1-Test products before.
- Bill
blackdream71 said:
That is great to hear Blackdream (well the gains, not the limpy). I have been following your feedback, and think it’s awesome. I posted it on my site for others to read actually. I hope your pants size went up because of your legs and not your waist BTW.
The feedback overall has been really impressive. The other companies can suggest the design offers little value, but results like yours speak for themselves.
As for the limpy, if the problem is actually estrogen as some people suggest, 4-AD or Boldione might correct it. I think it is the less androgenic nature of 1-Test myself, and would recommend 3-Alpha. I'd like to hear feedback if you try either one of these approaches.
- Bill
w_llewellyn said:
Sorry, 16. (I'm on painkillers, I have an excuse).
- Bill
latinus_spicticus
New member
NO need to go into a 'big long thing' to address the issue, weyeleyleeeing.
After reading the "dissolved in oil equates to magic WRT 1-test THP", one can easily deduce that the powdered hormones (Sauce, etc) can be broken apart and dissolved into oil and then ingested. Or did you have a more feasible argument for your supplement than "it has to be dissolved completely, not just taken with fat to get into the 'lymph' system"?
Methinks the ethergel "science" is about as sound as alchemy. I guarantee you that the 15lbs in 4 weeks on ethergel gains are either coincidental or 1 in a million (or even possibly falsified).
1AD still kicks the ass of all of the 1-test orals out there, anyway, considering the bioavailability of 1-test is piss poor when taken orally. Unless it is dissolved in oil and allowed to enter the lymphatic system (sarcasm). Isn't that the same 'technology' that was behind Andriol? What, did the bioavailability increase from 5 percent to 8 percent when using a dissolved-in-fat delivery system? Andriol was a bust, we shall see with the ethergels. I am willing to bet that they won't knock 1AD or Mag10 off of the shelves-- not by a longshot.
BTW, how does one end a cycle after a 8 week course of 1-test that results in near-total HTPA shutdown? You don't like clomid or nolvadex or anastrazole, you only seem to advocate HCG (which necessitates the use of an anti-e such as nolva/clomid/anastrazole, btw) which is a scheduled drug. You still have not spewed a solid answer. I guess spewing a solid would be oxymoronic.
After reading the "dissolved in oil equates to magic WRT 1-test THP", one can easily deduce that the powdered hormones (Sauce, etc) can be broken apart and dissolved into oil and then ingested. Or did you have a more feasible argument for your supplement than "it has to be dissolved completely, not just taken with fat to get into the 'lymph' system"?
Methinks the ethergel "science" is about as sound as alchemy. I guarantee you that the 15lbs in 4 weeks on ethergel gains are either coincidental or 1 in a million (or even possibly falsified).
1AD still kicks the ass of all of the 1-test orals out there, anyway, considering the bioavailability of 1-test is piss poor when taken orally. Unless it is dissolved in oil and allowed to enter the lymphatic system (sarcasm). Isn't that the same 'technology' that was behind Andriol? What, did the bioavailability increase from 5 percent to 8 percent when using a dissolved-in-fat delivery system? Andriol was a bust, we shall see with the ethergels. I am willing to bet that they won't knock 1AD or Mag10 off of the shelves-- not by a longshot.
BTW, how does one end a cycle after a 8 week course of 1-test that results in near-total HTPA shutdown? You don't like clomid or nolvadex or anastrazole, you only seem to advocate HCG (which necessitates the use of an anti-e such as nolva/clomid/anastrazole, btw) which is a scheduled drug. You still have not spewed a solid answer. I guess spewing a solid would be oxymoronic.
latinus_spicticus said:
Certainly.
First your belief that the powdered cap will burst open and the steroid will separate out and meet perfectly with fat in your stomach to be absorbed by the lymph system is tremendously unrealistic to say the least. Look at the cited references. There were significant differences in the lymph absorption when different oils were used as vehicles, and this is when administered directly to the small intestine. Sesame oil was tremendously better than oelic acid (olive oil is 80% OA) for example. Take with food is just laughable.
Also, having the steroid dissolved in oil seems to offer a protective effect against metabolism. This was shown in a study where an ether-modified steroid was dissolved in sesame oil and incubated with fresh bile. After 1 hour about 94% of the hormone was unchanged in sesame oil. This was far better than the 54%when dissolved in oleic acid. Obviously you do not have this benefit when the steroid spends a large amount of time floating freely around your innards, before it meets with fat, now do you?
The relatively thick softgel also takes a significantly longer time to break open than a regular gelatin capsule. Since lymphatic absorption takes place in the upper small intestine, any time not exposed to the stomach the better.
I do not operate like that, and take personal offense to this suggestion. Look around the boards, Blackdream is not the only extremely satisfied customer.
And on what to you base that clearly sound and reliable judgment? Have you used my product? I hate it when people talk out of their ass. Plus, the oral bioavailability of 1-AD is the same, if not slightly lower than that of 1-Test. You are an idiot LS.
Yes, and Andriol I will remind you is an effective oral testosterone replacement, sold in many countries. No drug company to my knowledge has ever sold powdered testosterone capsules. In the worst case study, with women, Andriol doubled the oral bioavailability of free T. I don’t know if it was taken with meals, which would greatly improve it. Women also get much better oral bioavailability from free testosterone than men do anyway, so it will be significantly more than doubled with males. Andriol was show repeatedly to be an effective T replacement in men, while T is known to be utterly useless. In fact, the practice of oral dosing with testosterone was pretty much excluded in the late 1930’s. How come they just didn’t increase the cap dose as you suggest solves things? Andriol was not sold until the 80’s, and the whole time before that scientists were searching for an oral testosterone replacement. That is the technology you are holding on to with the powder-filled caps.
I’m betting against you.
I suggest both HCG and an antiestrogen dipship. This point of view in several posts of mine, in my book, and in an article in next month’s Mind and Muscle (formerly BigMotherF*cker). Try reading before you speak.
And HCG is not a scheduled drug you moron. It is no different that the three other drugs in your post.
- Bill
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latinus_spicticus said:
And early feedback on "homemade ethergels" using raw 1-test THP and sesame oil wasn't that impressive. Perhaps it is just too exposed like that compared to the softgel. I don't know, and was a little surprised myself. Maybe if more tried it some of the feedback would be better. And this was with raw powder. With the caps you have to deal with a speck of hormone and a pile of fillers. Have fun.
latinus_spicticus said:
On a mg for mg basis it is 2 1/2 times the cost of Sauce. This is more than compensated for by its far greater oral bioavailability and true, slow lymphatic delivery. They have the same retail price, and bottle for bottle it will outperform Sauce every time. What is the problem?
These things aren't cheap to make, and I still made it the best value 1-Test product on the market. And since I'm the only one selling it, I could have charged a hundred bucks like other companies would have. I could have sold it only direct for a while too so everyone was forced to pay full retail. But I didn't. Back off LS.
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latinus_spicticus
New member
So you do believe an anti-estrogen is needed post-cycle? Okay, before I thought you said that they are not needed...but I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.
And is there any reference to back up your claim that 1-test is more orally bioavailable than 1AD?
1AD has proven itself through its results in many people. Ethergel 'technology'/encapsulated 1-test/whatever has not. Until it has, I don't think many people are going to buy your slightly-outlandish claims.
And is there any reference to back up your claim that 1-test is more orally bioavailable than 1AD?
1AD has proven itself through its results in many people. Ethergel 'technology'/encapsulated 1-test/whatever has not. Until it has, I don't think many people are going to buy your slightly-outlandish claims.
blackdream71
New member
believe me LATINUS my claims are not "falsified", i have nothing to gain from telling everyone my gains made on ETHERGELS, allthough it would be nice if i got another cycle of them free from BILL, J/K,LOL, anyway i'm a well respected member on ANABOLEX as well as a moderator at FITNESSBOARD.COM(just a little plug), to tell you the truth i was totally suprised when i stepped on the scale at week 4 and seen that big of an increase in weight, i have done cycles of DECA at 400mg per week and surely didn't see these kind of gains, i know next time i use them i will definitely stack with 4-AD cause this "limp dick syndrome" is for the birds, i'm only 30 years old this shouldn't be happening to me,LOL...
latinus_spicticus said:
Just common sense. They are the same hormone, except 1-AD has 2 hydroxyl groups instead of one. These are open to conjugation, which readies the hormone for excretion. I don't think there is a drastic difference, but if you want to improve the oral bioavailability of a hormone like 1-Test you don't make it a 3,17 diol.
I'll remind you again it has with Andriol. Agan, why else were they searching for over 30 years to find ways to take testosterone orally? According to you they should have just taken more.
I am not knocking 1-AD, it is a good product. But my design here is a tremendous improvement. 1-T has been out for a very short time now, and is already turning heads. The feedback on the various boards is not contrived, and the fact that people are making such good progress on such low doses speaks for itself.
I don't make slightly-outlandish claims. In fact, I PRIDE myself with doing business honestly. I worked hard on this design, and know it will change the face of the prohormone market in the months and years to come.. You can fight innovation just so long LS.
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latinus_spicticus
New member
I'll stick with 1AD until the ethergels are proven. I talked to the manager of a local supplement store that caters to the "hardcore" crowd yesterday (he carries several 1-test products). I won't name any names, but supposedly the 1-test products recieve negative reviews by 90% of the people that use them, and 1AD is by far the most liked PH (sells 3 times as much 1AD as the other PH combined) in the store. Pretty telling considering this particular store has _EVERY_ prohormone I have ever heard of stocked.
latinus_spicticus said:
I think this has a lot to do with dose (100mg ether = approx 75mg 1-T Base), and the fact that without the softgel the ether does little to improve things. You can't righly compare the other 1-test products to mine.
lovetoeat said:
Thanks for posting them! And glad to see you've been liking them so much..
As for side effects, glad to hear it has been comfortable for you. 1-Test IMO is a pretty friendly hormone most of the time. You hopefully won't notice the change much from 200 to 300 in this regard. Best of luck LTE!
"talked to the manager of a local supplement store that caters to the "hardcore" crowd yesterday (he carries several 1-test products). I won't name any names, but supposedly the 1-test products recieve negative reviews by 90% of the people that use them, and 1AD is by far the most liked PH (sells 3 times as much 1AD as the other PH combined) in the store."
I'm the owner of a "hardcore" store in NC. I carry everything from ONE/ONE+/ethergels/1-AD and I used to have sauce. I would never argue that I sell a lot more 1-AD than anything else. This is due to the fact that transdermals aren't suited for everyone. I've had 1, and I repeat 1 complaint about a 1-test transdermal not working and this guy could screw up anything. This makes less than 1% of customers not "liking it".
The market I draw isn't really willing to run things past 4 weeks. That is why sauce isn't in my store anymore. I've sold around 15-20 ethergels to this point and I haven't had a complaint yet. In the same regard I haven't had anyone saying it is the next best thing. Realize that a happy customer might tell you something worked. A pissed customer will tell you 100 times that the product didn't work for him. To me I look at the lack of feedback as a good thing.
1-AD speaks for itself, everyone knows it works. I don't think anyone argues that. It has also been out longer. Give a product time before saying "it sucks".
I'm the owner of a "hardcore" store in NC. I carry everything from ONE/ONE+/ethergels/1-AD and I used to have sauce. I would never argue that I sell a lot more 1-AD than anything else. This is due to the fact that transdermals aren't suited for everyone. I've had 1, and I repeat 1 complaint about a 1-test transdermal not working and this guy could screw up anything. This makes less than 1% of customers not "liking it".
The market I draw isn't really willing to run things past 4 weeks. That is why sauce isn't in my store anymore. I've sold around 15-20 ethergels to this point and I haven't had a complaint yet. In the same regard I haven't had anyone saying it is the next best thing. Realize that a happy customer might tell you something worked. A pissed customer will tell you 100 times that the product didn't work for him. To me I look at the lack of feedback as a good thing.
1-AD speaks for itself, everyone knows it works. I don't think anyone argues that. It has also been out longer. Give a product time before saying "it sucks".
blackdream71
New member
yea a lot of the online supp stores i usually shop at are out of stock on the ETHERGELS right now, we should soon have a lot more feedback on how they work.....
latinus_spicticus
New member
Guys, I am not saying ethergels suck. I am willilng to give them the benefit of the doubt. I am just saying that until I talk to a person face to face and/or see results firsthand, I won't believe that they are better than 1AD. The guy at the supp store said that no one likes 1-test nearly as much as 1AD, and maybe this is because there are shitty 1-test products and good 1-test products out there. Ethergels may be good. I am not going to buy them until they drop in price or are proven to be dramatically better than 1AD. End of discussion-- it is pointless to argue over this topic.
latinus_spicticus
New member
The store I stopped at did NOT carry ETHERGELS. So customer feedback did not include MN's product. However, they did have every other oral 1-test supp available. NO transdermals. I don't think the Beta versions of ParDeus' ONE and ONE+ are very appealing to most people due to the packaging (even though that is a very stupid assumption for people to base their purchase on). I think ONE is probably the most effective 1-test so far even though I didn't get good results on it. But I got jack shit from androspray and androsol, so I don't think transdermals work well for me. To reiterate, right now I have 8 bottles of 1AD in my shoebox of PH/anti-e's/grey market supps so until I run out of 1AD I won't even think about buying anything like Ethergels.
PEACE.
PEACE.
I would be warry of this store owner. If you look at all the 1-test products there aren't that many. You have sauce, ethergels, 1-AD and VPX 1-test. If he doesn't carry ethergels, that only leaves sauce and VPX. Feedback is always good, just watch out for store owners sometimes, they might not always have your best interest 
latinus_spicticus
New member
To 1FAST400:
The store had about 4 or 5 different kinds of 1-test. I think there are more than just VPX and Sauce besides the ethergels. There were bottles from (I think) Gaspari nutrition?? and defintately SAN T-100's product was there. I think there were two others. Anyway, the guy seemed cool and his prices were on par with netrition's, so I will shop there from now on. He did not have the "used care salesman" approach at all. It was like he did this for fun-- like we do on the board.
PEACE.
To bpdaddy:
I won't even grace you with a response other than the fact is that ONE is by far the best 1-test based on customer feedback, although my results don't back it up. I won't sink to your level of childishness.
The store had about 4 or 5 different kinds of 1-test. I think there are more than just VPX and Sauce besides the ethergels. There were bottles from (I think) Gaspari nutrition?? and defintately SAN T-100's product was there. I think there were two others. Anyway, the guy seemed cool and his prices were on par with netrition's, so I will shop there from now on. He did not have the "used care salesman" approach at all. It was like he did this for fun-- like we do on the board.
PEACE.
To bpdaddy:
I won't even grace you with a response other than the fact is that ONE is by far the best 1-test based on customer feedback, although my results don't back it up. I won't sink to your level of childishness.
latinus_spicticus said:
Childishness, um ok...I was neither agreeing or disagreeing with you. I love Avant Labs, I just wanted to know WHY you feel it is better than 1-AD or 1-T ethergels? I think your a little to touchy, chile out dude, I agree with ya the board is for fun and I was NOT ATTACKING YOU! If it came across that way MY BAD. I agree ONE feedback is HOT, I just have never taken it..wanned your feedback.
PEACE
