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Corn, I want to up the volume of the Old School Training Method.
- Thread starter frorider6
- Start date
T
The Shadow
Guest
Re: Re: Re: My new program
Hmmmmmmm...
Well...You could try:
feet elevated push-ups for chest
sliding a couple of 45 under one end of the bench to make a slight incline
keep the close grip on chest day and do Nose breakers for triceps on arm day.
bm2k said:
Hmmmmmmm...
Well...You could try:
feet elevated push-ups for chest
sliding a couple of 45 under one end of the bench to make a slight incline
keep the close grip on chest day and do Nose breakers for triceps on arm day.
Re: Re: Re: Re: My new program
I think I'll try propping the bench up as safely as I can. The frame of my power rack and a couple of large plates should do the trick. The incline won't end up being huge, so I'll also use the feet elevated push-ups.
Monday will now look like this:
Monday (Chest: 8-13 sets)
Flat Bench Press: 4-6 sets of 1-8 reps
Incline Bench Press: 2-3 sets of 1-6 reps
Feet Elevated Push-ups: 1-2 sets, varying reps, optional
Flys: 1-2 sets, light, optional
Cornholio said:
I think I'll try propping the bench up as safely as I can. The frame of my power rack and a couple of large plates should do the trick. The incline won't end up being huge, so I'll also use the feet elevated push-ups.
Monday will now look like this:
Monday (Chest: 8-13 sets)
Flat Bench Press: 4-6 sets of 1-8 reps
Incline Bench Press: 2-3 sets of 1-6 reps
Feet Elevated Push-ups: 1-2 sets, varying reps, optional
Flys: 1-2 sets, light, optional
Night Fly
New member
Cornholio said:
OKay...well...I have read this thread long enough without saying anything. This is flat out ridiculous. I am actually sitting here laughing at some of the suggestions I am reading on here. I won't even go into all that.
You know...I have actually had that conversation with him before...the one about why he seems to put down programs that he doesn't try. This was until I realized that he actually HAS done your program...maybe not the exact exercises and what not, but pretty much the same program. This program didn't do anything for him like other programs have (like the other one he posted). He is speakind from his own personal experience...that is it.
You speak of this program being based on low rep heavy basic training...but is that really all you think he does? As you probably have already noticed, he really could care less about his gym numbers...he is not training to increase his gym weights...he is training to get better in strongman. This means...putting everything else and more into his workouts on Sunday...and he puts so much into them, that he really doesn't feel like doing much in the gym during the week. The funny thing is...his "not very much" or his "light/easy" is probably quite a few people's "a whole lot" and "heavy/hard." Do you see what I'm saying.
I think that you are a huge advocate of this type of training because you are a trainer. I mean...has this really worked for you? Are you really as big as you want to be? If you are...then that's great! But if not...why wouldn't YOU consider trying something different. Maybe something that really could put some size on you. It seems to me that you aren't really wanting to realize that maybe if you tried a program that he does...that you, too, would grow from it.
I don't know....this was not meant to be a personal attack to you, at all. I would have said this to anyone else who had typed it. I just really want you to try to see his side of things too. He actually helped me out with the program I am doing...and I have really grown in the past 7 weeks from it. And you know what? I'm not even doing any event training because I can't. I'm just doing gym work.
Good luck with everything, and I truly hope that you didn't take this post the wrong way.
T
The Shadow
Guest
Night Fly said:
I advocate the program because it works. BOttom line. Ask anyone who has tried it. Being a trainer has nothing to do with the situation.
Am I as big as I want to be??
NO.
Am I as big as I can be for stage work and print work??
Yes, to the point that I have lost work.
Again - If I were wanting to get bigger, I don't think I would event train as FOLD had stated that he lost size by doing so.
List what gym training you are doing.
I would imagine it's heavy on the basics like the old school program. Squats deads, etc.
See - the thing is - he stated that he did indeed gain most of his size by doing a very similar program years ago.
The mis-communication was, if event training made him smaller - why would he not be open to a change, as there is a very BIG difference between maintaining anf actuallt losing size. Again, we have talked about that and I see the reasoning behing it.
Night Fly
New member
Cornholio said:
If it worked....wouldn't it be making you bigger by now? Or are you not doing that program and only training others to do it. Also...why do the people who have tried it struggle so much with joint pain, etc? That surely cannot be healthy for them...or you for that matter. I know it doesn't set it for a while, but if you are able to do a program where you have basically NO joint pain...even 7 weeks into the program...why on earth would you want to do one that caused you to have that pain?
Once again, you are failing to realize something. He was 300 lbs when he started his strongman training for his Boston contest. He had decided he wanted to go from 275 to 300 lbs in about 2 months or so. Therefore...putting on that weight he is going to add a lot more fat than muscle in that short period of time. When he started his event training...he lost size...because he lost FAT. He did not lose any muscle...in fact...he gained some more muscle. Because he is a lean 285 and not a chunky 300 you actually can sit there and try to use that as justification for losing size???
You are right...you are too lean right now to do event training because it would make you smaller...considering the way your body is. You are lean now...and he wasn't lean when he started. But can you explain to me why he hasn't lost any of that weight since then....and yet still continues to get stronger and stronger? He is a massive 285 and freakishly strong.
I work out 3 days a week. I do deads and back on one day...squats on my leg day...and push presses/chest/shoulders on the other day. I have not gone heavy in my squats or my bench presses the whole time I have been doing this program. I have gone heavy on deads two weeks in a row, but that was it because it taxed my lower back too much. So...no...it's not heavy on the basics. Just a good, solid workout...not a program. I can go into the gym and alter what I do every single workout. I don't ever do the exact same things in the gym two weeks in a row.
Once again, I say that this is not a personal attack towards you at all...and you seemed to take it that way from reading your reply.
Last edited:
T
The Shadow
Guest
If it worked....wouldn't it be making you bigger by now? Or are you not doing that program and only training others to do it. Also...why do the people who have tried it struggle so much with joint pain, etc? That surely cannot be healthy for them...or you for that matter. I know it doesn't set it for a while, but if you are able to do a program where you have basically NO joint pain...even 7 weeks into the program...why on earth would you want to do one that caused you to have that pain?
......Well...I have recommended that the program is only to be used twice per year. Joint pain comes for the heavier weights which tax ligiments and tendon strength. You imply that I want people to continue on a program when inflamed joints arise. Please point out where I implied that. So - are you saying that you should avoid an exercise altogether because the joints get sore?? Why not cycle onto another program that incluse them but in a different rep range??
Once again, you are failing to realize something. He was 300 lbs when he started his strongman training for his Boston contest. He had decided he wanted to go from 275 to 300 lbs in about 2 months or so. Therefore...putting on that weight he is going to add a lot more fat than muscle in that short period of time. When he started his event training...he lost size...because he lost FAT. He did not lose any muscle...in fact...he gained some more muscle. Because he is a lean 285 and not a chunky 300 you actually can sit there and try to use that as justification for losing size???
Justification is that I swear I read that he used the term "more compact". To me that that doesn't mean fat loss. If that was inded the case then it was my fault for making the asumption.
You are right...you are too lean right now to do event training because it would make you smaller...considering the way your body is. You are lean now...and he wasn't lean when he started. But can you explain to me why he hasn't lost any of that weight since then....and yet still continues to get stronger and stronger? He is a massive 285 and freakishly strong.
Explain why he is getting stronger yet not gain a lot of weight...most powerflifters get stronger without ever changing weight classes. He is not training for size. He is training for strength - two separate issues. I think that is where some of this miscommunication is coming from. I said this was a great program for size with the added benefit of strength.
I work out 3 days a week. I do deads and back on one day...squats on my leg day...and push presses/chest/shoulders on the other day. I have not gone heavy in my squats or my bench presses the whole time I have been doing this program. I have gone heavy on deads two weeks in a row, but that was it because it taxed my lower back too much. So...no...it's not heavy on the basics. Just a good, solid workout...not a program. I can go into the gym and alter what I do every single workout. I don't ever do the exact same things in the gym two weeks in a row.
So - you do a program that relies on Squats, deads and presses - same type exercises as what I recommend. It's good that you can alter the w/o every week. That point is really neither here nor there. If a program is working, even doing thwe smae exercises and rep scheme - you should make progress for several weeks in a row.
Once again, I say that this is not a personal attack towards you at all...and you seemed to take it that way from reading your reply.
Please point out where I seemed to take your comments personally, because that is not the case.
......Well...I have recommended that the program is only to be used twice per year. Joint pain comes for the heavier weights which tax ligiments and tendon strength. You imply that I want people to continue on a program when inflamed joints arise. Please point out where I implied that. So - are you saying that you should avoid an exercise altogether because the joints get sore?? Why not cycle onto another program that incluse them but in a different rep range??
Once again, you are failing to realize something. He was 300 lbs when he started his strongman training for his Boston contest. He had decided he wanted to go from 275 to 300 lbs in about 2 months or so. Therefore...putting on that weight he is going to add a lot more fat than muscle in that short period of time. When he started his event training...he lost size...because he lost FAT. He did not lose any muscle...in fact...he gained some more muscle. Because he is a lean 285 and not a chunky 300 you actually can sit there and try to use that as justification for losing size???
Justification is that I swear I read that he used the term "more compact". To me that that doesn't mean fat loss. If that was inded the case then it was my fault for making the asumption.
You are right...you are too lean right now to do event training because it would make you smaller...considering the way your body is. You are lean now...and he wasn't lean when he started. But can you explain to me why he hasn't lost any of that weight since then....and yet still continues to get stronger and stronger? He is a massive 285 and freakishly strong.
Explain why he is getting stronger yet not gain a lot of weight...most powerflifters get stronger without ever changing weight classes. He is not training for size. He is training for strength - two separate issues. I think that is where some of this miscommunication is coming from. I said this was a great program for size with the added benefit of strength.
I work out 3 days a week. I do deads and back on one day...squats on my leg day...and push presses/chest/shoulders on the other day. I have not gone heavy in my squats or my bench presses the whole time I have been doing this program. I have gone heavy on deads two weeks in a row, but that was it because it taxed my lower back too much. So...no...it's not heavy on the basics. Just a good, solid workout...not a program. I can go into the gym and alter what I do every single workout. I don't ever do the exact same things in the gym two weeks in a row.
So - you do a program that relies on Squats, deads and presses - same type exercises as what I recommend. It's good that you can alter the w/o every week. That point is really neither here nor there. If a program is working, even doing thwe smae exercises and rep scheme - you should make progress for several weeks in a row.
Once again, I say that this is not a personal attack towards you at all...and you seemed to take it that way from reading your reply.
Please point out where I seemed to take your comments personally, because that is not the case.
"......Well...I have recommended that the program is only to be used twice per year. Joint pain comes for the heavier weights which tax ligiments and tendon strength. You imply that I want people to continue on a program when inflamed joints arise. Please point out where I implied that. So - are you saying that you should avoid an exercise altogether because the joints get sore?? Why not cycle onto another program that incluse them but in a different rep range?? "
If a program is to only be used twice a year...it is not a good program. Louie Simmons says that any program that "works only for a limited time" is not a good one. You are usually growing because of simple change and/or overtraining.
Where do find that Joint pain comes from heavier weights? Joint pain, in this case, probably comes from the fact that you are doing squats, deads, and flat presses 3x per week. The joint never gets a rest. She never said that you should avoid that exercise totally...just NOT 3x per week...and heaven forbid a machine like the Smith Machine. A machine that restricts the joint's movement to a non-natural movement.
"Justification is that I swear I read that he used the term "more compact". To me that that doesn't mean fat loss. If that was inded the case then it was my fault for making the asumption. "
More compact? I am functionally stronger now than I was a year ago.
August, 2000: 275lbs.
December 26th 2000: 305lbs.
I was still doing bodybuilding then...no machines...same garage gym I train in now.
February 2001: 290lbs, getting in better cardio shape.
June 2001: 289, still better cardio shape
October 2001: 280, really focusing on speed strength and cardio
February 2002: 290, super cardio shape AND strength
Current: 285, great shape, getting leaner, strength phase beginning
You do not seem to understand that at 285...my waist is about 4-5" smaller and everything else is the same. Sure, the "pretty" muscles (chest, front delts, quads, etc..) don't look as "pretty", but strength does not lay in those muscles. Strength comes from those muscles that you see from the backsides of a person. I don't train my front delts, upper chest, biceps, quads hardly at all with strongman...I train total functional strength.
BUT...
I have not advocated doing strongman training on this thread at all. I have not suggested doing farmers, yoke walk, harness pulling, hussefeld stone lifting, etc...on this thread. I posted a bodybuilding routine. I posted a routine that took me from 152-305lbs.
"Explain why he is getting stronger yet not gain a lot of weight...most powerflifters get stronger without ever changing weight classes. He is not training for size. He is training for strength - two separate issues. I think that is where some of this miscommunication is coming from. I said this was a great program for size with the added benefit of strength."
I am constantly getting leaner and doing 4 hours of cardio on Sundays don't help too much either. Hard, intense cardio. I lift 2x a week and one day of events...the rest is REST time. Powerlifters don't change weight classes? The strongest powerlifters are USUALLY in the SHW class. A powerlifter, good one anyway, will tell you that if you want to push/pull more weight...get bigger and gain weight.
Your program is good for size and strength? A person can get stronger at concentration curls...but that is not what I consider strength. Smith Squats? Smith Bench? Push-ups on a bench? Gloves, straps, padding the bar while doing squats? One word...KAZ.
"So - you do a program that relies on Squats, deads and presses - same type exercises as what I recommend. It's good that you can alter the w/o every week. That point is really neither here nor there. If a program is working, even doing thwe smae exercises and rep scheme - you should make progress for several weeks in a row."
"I would imagine it's heavy on the basics like the old school program. Squats deads, etc. "
Monday:Squats, Bench, Deads 10 sets of 10
Tues-Sunday: Repeat every day
This program is based on squats, bench, and deadlift...just like mine and hers? What is your point? There is little to no correlation between our programs. Just because they both advocate squats...doesn't mean that they are equal...or even close.
"See - the thing is - he stated that he did indeed gain most of his size by doing a very similar program years ago."
YOU said that, not me. Our programs are similar to the point that we both trained in a gym, that is about where it ended.
"The mis-communication was, if event training made him smaller - why would he not be open to a change, as there is a very BIG difference between maintaining anf actuallt losing size. Again, we have talked about that and I see the reasoning behing it."
Event training did NOT make me smaller. The intense cardio, many other factors in my life, and getting constantly leaner has made me smaller. I still have a 30" thigh, 19+" arms, calves nearing 18", cross striations in my thighs, etc... I train for pure strength and functionality towards my events. Why waste 10 sets for upper chest or outer delts if they don't make a hill of beans difference on contest day?
BUT...
That was not my point...my point is that you are using my strongman training to compare to...my functionality training. I give advice to those wishing to get bigger and stronger...not how to be a strongman. Seems as if your point just doesn't make any sense.
Why will I not try your program? Because I do not wish to lose further strength, overtrain, have an injury, lose speed strength, lose strength speed...and Heaven Forbid if anyone ever sees me on a Smith Machine...unless I am using it to hold by sweaty t-shirts while changing clothes.
I am living proof that peole can gain large amounts of weight, drug free, with very limited equipment. When I gained to 305lbs...I had a bar, semi power rack, 700lbs of 45's, 2 cable pull downs, 2 dbells, and a make-shift chin up bar.
Maybe I am ignorant to the ways of modern day bodybuilding. If modern day bodybuilding revolves around straps, gloves, padding the bar, smith machines, overtraining, etc...I want little to do about it.
I don't give advice to those who just want to look "toned" or anyone who wants to be happy weighing 200lbs. I wanted to be a freak. I wanted freakish size and freakish strength. I've accomplished a lot more of that than the average person I guess...but I didn't get hooked on the cables and machines fad for very long. I have done about every program type in the world. I found which ones had good points and which ones had tons of bad ones.
In our society...we see so many things as "quick and easy, just follow these steps and you can too..." and this is not correct. Find those who are where you want to be and ask questions. Learn from them...and improve simply, basically, and with all that you have.
Ohh...I don't think that I am the ONLY one being closed minded here. Don't think I am being closed minded at all.
B True
If a program is to only be used twice a year...it is not a good program. Louie Simmons says that any program that "works only for a limited time" is not a good one. You are usually growing because of simple change and/or overtraining.
Where do find that Joint pain comes from heavier weights? Joint pain, in this case, probably comes from the fact that you are doing squats, deads, and flat presses 3x per week. The joint never gets a rest. She never said that you should avoid that exercise totally...just NOT 3x per week...and heaven forbid a machine like the Smith Machine. A machine that restricts the joint's movement to a non-natural movement.
"Justification is that I swear I read that he used the term "more compact". To me that that doesn't mean fat loss. If that was inded the case then it was my fault for making the asumption. "
More compact? I am functionally stronger now than I was a year ago.
August, 2000: 275lbs.
December 26th 2000: 305lbs.
I was still doing bodybuilding then...no machines...same garage gym I train in now.
February 2001: 290lbs, getting in better cardio shape.
June 2001: 289, still better cardio shape
October 2001: 280, really focusing on speed strength and cardio
February 2002: 290, super cardio shape AND strength
Current: 285, great shape, getting leaner, strength phase beginning
You do not seem to understand that at 285...my waist is about 4-5" smaller and everything else is the same. Sure, the "pretty" muscles (chest, front delts, quads, etc..) don't look as "pretty", but strength does not lay in those muscles. Strength comes from those muscles that you see from the backsides of a person. I don't train my front delts, upper chest, biceps, quads hardly at all with strongman...I train total functional strength.
BUT...
I have not advocated doing strongman training on this thread at all. I have not suggested doing farmers, yoke walk, harness pulling, hussefeld stone lifting, etc...on this thread. I posted a bodybuilding routine. I posted a routine that took me from 152-305lbs.
"Explain why he is getting stronger yet not gain a lot of weight...most powerflifters get stronger without ever changing weight classes. He is not training for size. He is training for strength - two separate issues. I think that is where some of this miscommunication is coming from. I said this was a great program for size with the added benefit of strength."
I am constantly getting leaner and doing 4 hours of cardio on Sundays don't help too much either. Hard, intense cardio. I lift 2x a week and one day of events...the rest is REST time. Powerlifters don't change weight classes? The strongest powerlifters are USUALLY in the SHW class. A powerlifter, good one anyway, will tell you that if you want to push/pull more weight...get bigger and gain weight.
Your program is good for size and strength? A person can get stronger at concentration curls...but that is not what I consider strength. Smith Squats? Smith Bench? Push-ups on a bench? Gloves, straps, padding the bar while doing squats? One word...KAZ.
"So - you do a program that relies on Squats, deads and presses - same type exercises as what I recommend. It's good that you can alter the w/o every week. That point is really neither here nor there. If a program is working, even doing thwe smae exercises and rep scheme - you should make progress for several weeks in a row."
"I would imagine it's heavy on the basics like the old school program. Squats deads, etc. "
Monday:Squats, Bench, Deads 10 sets of 10
Tues-Sunday: Repeat every day
This program is based on squats, bench, and deadlift...just like mine and hers? What is your point? There is little to no correlation between our programs. Just because they both advocate squats...doesn't mean that they are equal...or even close.
"See - the thing is - he stated that he did indeed gain most of his size by doing a very similar program years ago."
YOU said that, not me. Our programs are similar to the point that we both trained in a gym, that is about where it ended.
"The mis-communication was, if event training made him smaller - why would he not be open to a change, as there is a very BIG difference between maintaining anf actuallt losing size. Again, we have talked about that and I see the reasoning behing it."
Event training did NOT make me smaller. The intense cardio, many other factors in my life, and getting constantly leaner has made me smaller. I still have a 30" thigh, 19+" arms, calves nearing 18", cross striations in my thighs, etc... I train for pure strength and functionality towards my events. Why waste 10 sets for upper chest or outer delts if they don't make a hill of beans difference on contest day?
BUT...
That was not my point...my point is that you are using my strongman training to compare to...my functionality training. I give advice to those wishing to get bigger and stronger...not how to be a strongman. Seems as if your point just doesn't make any sense.
Why will I not try your program? Because I do not wish to lose further strength, overtrain, have an injury, lose speed strength, lose strength speed...and Heaven Forbid if anyone ever sees me on a Smith Machine...unless I am using it to hold by sweaty t-shirts while changing clothes.
I am living proof that peole can gain large amounts of weight, drug free, with very limited equipment. When I gained to 305lbs...I had a bar, semi power rack, 700lbs of 45's, 2 cable pull downs, 2 dbells, and a make-shift chin up bar.
Maybe I am ignorant to the ways of modern day bodybuilding. If modern day bodybuilding revolves around straps, gloves, padding the bar, smith machines, overtraining, etc...I want little to do about it.
I don't give advice to those who just want to look "toned" or anyone who wants to be happy weighing 200lbs. I wanted to be a freak. I wanted freakish size and freakish strength. I've accomplished a lot more of that than the average person I guess...but I didn't get hooked on the cables and machines fad for very long. I have done about every program type in the world. I found which ones had good points and which ones had tons of bad ones.
In our society...we see so many things as "quick and easy, just follow these steps and you can too..." and this is not correct. Find those who are where you want to be and ask questions. Learn from them...and improve simply, basically, and with all that you have.
Ohh...I don't think that I am the ONLY one being closed minded here. Don't think I am being closed minded at all.
B True
Last edited:
T
The Shadow
Guest
If a program is to only be used twice a year...it is not a good program. Louie Simmons says that any program that "works only for a limited time" is not a good one. You are usually growing because of simple change and/or overtraining.
...if you are growing - does it really matter if you are changing programs or not? You follow the SAME program in exactly the same way for a year and you will not GROW.
Where do find that Joint pain comes from heavier weights? Joint pain, in this case, probably comes from the fact that you are doing squats, deads, and flat presses 3x per week. The joint never gets a rest. She never said that you should avoid that exercise totally...just NOT 3x per week...and heaven forbid a machine like the Smith Machine. A machine that restricts the joint's movement to a non-natural movement.
...show me where I recommended a Smith Machine 3 times per week
... Squatting was TWICE per week for a total of 6 working sets. You think that that is too many sets??
More compact? I am functionally stronger now than I was a year ago.
August, 2000: 275lbs.
December 26th 2000: 305lbs.
I was still doing bodybuilding then...no machines...same garage gym I train in now.
February 2001: 290lbs, getting in better cardio shape.
June 2001: 289, still better cardio shape
October 2001: 280, really focusing on speed strength and cardio
February 2002: 290, super cardio shape AND strength
Current: 285, great shape, getting leaner, strength phase beginning
I never said anything to the contrary - only that you lost from 315 to 285.
Your program is good for size and strength? A person can get stronger at concentration curls...but that is not what I consider strength. Smith Squats? Smith Bench? Push-ups on a bench? Gloves, straps, padding the bar while doing squats? One word...KAZ.
If you are referring to the NEWER workout I gave to Fro - please show me where I said it was a size and strength program.....why not be strong on every exercise???
This program is based on squats, bench, and deadlift...just like mine and hers? What is your point? There is little to no correlation between our programs. Just because they both advocate squats...doesn't mean that they are equal...or even close.
Wasn't my point....my point was that she is on a program that advocates the SAME exercises - squats deads and presses.
Event training did NOT make me smaller. The intense cardio, many other factors in my life, and getting constantly leaner has made me smaller. I still have a 30" thigh, 19+" arms, calves nearing 18", cross striations in my thighs, etc... I train for pure strength and functionality towards my events. Why waste 10 sets for upper chest or outer delts if they don't make a hill of beans difference on contest day?
I saw a pic of you doing inclines - why do them if they don't matter on contest day?
Why will I not try your program? Because I do not wish to lose further strength, overtrain, have an injury, lose speed strength, lose strength speed...and Heaven Forbid if anyone ever sees me on a Smith Machine...unless I am using it to hold by sweaty t-shirts while changing clothes.
I don't understand - you think that the original progarm I gave Fro will not make you stronger??? Again you mention the Smith Machine when it is NOT a part of that original program
Maybe I am ignorant to the ways of modern day bodybuilding. If modern day bodybuilding revolves around straps, gloves, padding the bar, smith machines, overtraining, etc...I want little to do about it.
LOL - Whatever.......that's fine. My program, again was a size program primarily with an added benefit of increased strength.
Ohh...I don't think that I am the ONLY one being closed minded here. Don't think I am being closed minded at all.
Agian - you pull these statements out of the air. Show me WHERE I said you were being close minded, please.....
.
...if you are growing - does it really matter if you are changing programs or not? You follow the SAME program in exactly the same way for a year and you will not GROW.
Where do find that Joint pain comes from heavier weights? Joint pain, in this case, probably comes from the fact that you are doing squats, deads, and flat presses 3x per week. The joint never gets a rest. She never said that you should avoid that exercise totally...just NOT 3x per week...and heaven forbid a machine like the Smith Machine. A machine that restricts the joint's movement to a non-natural movement.
...show me where I recommended a Smith Machine 3 times per week
... Squatting was TWICE per week for a total of 6 working sets. You think that that is too many sets??
More compact? I am functionally stronger now than I was a year ago.
August, 2000: 275lbs.
December 26th 2000: 305lbs.
I was still doing bodybuilding then...no machines...same garage gym I train in now.
February 2001: 290lbs, getting in better cardio shape.
June 2001: 289, still better cardio shape
October 2001: 280, really focusing on speed strength and cardio
February 2002: 290, super cardio shape AND strength
Current: 285, great shape, getting leaner, strength phase beginning
I never said anything to the contrary - only that you lost from 315 to 285.
Your program is good for size and strength? A person can get stronger at concentration curls...but that is not what I consider strength. Smith Squats? Smith Bench? Push-ups on a bench? Gloves, straps, padding the bar while doing squats? One word...KAZ.
If you are referring to the NEWER workout I gave to Fro - please show me where I said it was a size and strength program.....why not be strong on every exercise???
This program is based on squats, bench, and deadlift...just like mine and hers? What is your point? There is little to no correlation between our programs. Just because they both advocate squats...doesn't mean that they are equal...or even close.
Wasn't my point....my point was that she is on a program that advocates the SAME exercises - squats deads and presses.
Event training did NOT make me smaller. The intense cardio, many other factors in my life, and getting constantly leaner has made me smaller. I still have a 30" thigh, 19+" arms, calves nearing 18", cross striations in my thighs, etc... I train for pure strength and functionality towards my events. Why waste 10 sets for upper chest or outer delts if they don't make a hill of beans difference on contest day?
I saw a pic of you doing inclines - why do them if they don't matter on contest day?
Why will I not try your program? Because I do not wish to lose further strength, overtrain, have an injury, lose speed strength, lose strength speed...and Heaven Forbid if anyone ever sees me on a Smith Machine...unless I am using it to hold by sweaty t-shirts while changing clothes.
I don't understand - you think that the original progarm I gave Fro will not make you stronger??? Again you mention the Smith Machine when it is NOT a part of that original program
Maybe I am ignorant to the ways of modern day bodybuilding. If modern day bodybuilding revolves around straps, gloves, padding the bar, smith machines, overtraining, etc...I want little to do about it.
LOL - Whatever.......that's fine. My program, again was a size program primarily with an added benefit of increased strength.
Ohh...I don't think that I am the ONLY one being closed minded here. Don't think I am being closed minded at all.
Agian - you pull these statements out of the air. Show me WHERE I said you were being close minded, please.....
.
"...if you are growing - does it really matter if you are changing programs or not? You follow the SAME program in exactly the same way for a year and you will not GROW."
Constantly changing your program, constantly changing your exercises...probably not gonna get very strong on those exercises...probably. The point where squats, deads, and bench press (in their raw form) are taken out of the program...especially for size...the program takes a great nose dive in my opinion.
"...show me where I recommended a Smith Machine 3 times per week
... Squatting was TWICE per week for a total of 6 working sets. You think that that is too many sets??"
Squatting twice per week and deadlifts once or twice a week too? How many times a week are you doing pressing movements in the Old School Routine? Don't think I said you suggested the Smith Machine 3x a week. You suggested the Smith Machine though...that is bad enough. Smith Lunges, Smith bench press, that just kills it for me. You take stress off of the muscle and put it on the joint. You take Fro, knees hurting, and put him doing lunges...and on a smith machine.
"I never said anything to the contrary - only that you lost from 315 to 285."
BUT you used that statement to say that I was big despite my training methods...AND that I would be bigger if I used machines...and to discredit my training methods. YOU would gain from doing events...it would be something heavy and with total free weights.
"If you are referring to the NEWER workout I gave to Fro - please show me where I said it was a size and strength program.....why not be strong on every exercise??? "
Ok...so are you saying that it is for strength and size or not? Why not be strong on smith machine bench or smith machine squats or bench push ups? Because they are worthless. They do not work the body like they are intended to be worked...freely. They restrict the range of motion that a joint can go through. You also said this..."I said this was a great program for size with the added benefit of strength."
"Wasn't my point....my point was that she is on a program that advocates the SAME exercises - squats deads and presses."
Wasn't your point? You used the fact that she does squats, deads, and presses to advocate your method because it includes the same exercises. If you would like to infer that just because the two programs include a couple of the same qualities that they are equal...you are wrong. My truck has 4 wheels and so does my father's 1938 Olds...yet there is a big difference in the transportation methods which they provide. Like I showed...I could train squats, bench, and deads 7 days a week and it would have the same lifts as yours...but STILL would not be a good one.
"I saw a pic of you doing inclines - why do them if they don't matter on contest day? "
I'll post a pic of me doing the incline log press from a contest soon. Do you mean the 2 sets of inclines I did by the way? I said why do 10 sets of upper chest and side delts if they didn't make a hill of beans worth of difference on contest day? Inclines do work as an auxillary exercise to the overhead log press (which I set a PR in on Sunday).
"LOL - Whatever.......that's fine. My program, again was a size program primarily with an added benefit of increased strength."
Thought that you weren't interested in strength?
"Agian - you pull these statements out of the air. Show me WHERE I said you were being close minded, please..... "
I deleted the PM where you called me close minded...or I would post it.
B True
Constantly changing your program, constantly changing your exercises...probably not gonna get very strong on those exercises...probably. The point where squats, deads, and bench press (in their raw form) are taken out of the program...especially for size...the program takes a great nose dive in my opinion.
"...show me where I recommended a Smith Machine 3 times per week
... Squatting was TWICE per week for a total of 6 working sets. You think that that is too many sets??"
Squatting twice per week and deadlifts once or twice a week too? How many times a week are you doing pressing movements in the Old School Routine? Don't think I said you suggested the Smith Machine 3x a week. You suggested the Smith Machine though...that is bad enough. Smith Lunges, Smith bench press, that just kills it for me. You take stress off of the muscle and put it on the joint. You take Fro, knees hurting, and put him doing lunges...and on a smith machine.
"I never said anything to the contrary - only that you lost from 315 to 285."
BUT you used that statement to say that I was big despite my training methods...AND that I would be bigger if I used machines...and to discredit my training methods. YOU would gain from doing events...it would be something heavy and with total free weights.
"If you are referring to the NEWER workout I gave to Fro - please show me where I said it was a size and strength program.....why not be strong on every exercise??? "
Ok...so are you saying that it is for strength and size or not? Why not be strong on smith machine bench or smith machine squats or bench push ups? Because they are worthless. They do not work the body like they are intended to be worked...freely. They restrict the range of motion that a joint can go through. You also said this..."I said this was a great program for size with the added benefit of strength."
"Wasn't my point....my point was that she is on a program that advocates the SAME exercises - squats deads and presses."
Wasn't your point? You used the fact that she does squats, deads, and presses to advocate your method because it includes the same exercises. If you would like to infer that just because the two programs include a couple of the same qualities that they are equal...you are wrong. My truck has 4 wheels and so does my father's 1938 Olds...yet there is a big difference in the transportation methods which they provide. Like I showed...I could train squats, bench, and deads 7 days a week and it would have the same lifts as yours...but STILL would not be a good one.
"I saw a pic of you doing inclines - why do them if they don't matter on contest day? "
I'll post a pic of me doing the incline log press from a contest soon. Do you mean the 2 sets of inclines I did by the way? I said why do 10 sets of upper chest and side delts if they didn't make a hill of beans worth of difference on contest day? Inclines do work as an auxillary exercise to the overhead log press (which I set a PR in on Sunday).
"LOL - Whatever.......that's fine. My program, again was a size program primarily with an added benefit of increased strength."
Thought that you weren't interested in strength?
"Agian - you pull these statements out of the air. Show me WHERE I said you were being close minded, please..... "
I deleted the PM where you called me close minded...or I would post it.
B True
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