Corn, I want to up the volume of the Old School Training Method.

[The Shadow]

I do not see a reason to try one of your programs because they do not help with my goals. Fro saw the same things wrong with this latest program that I did...no deadlifts, smith machine, and too many isolation movements. Never think that I have done the exact same program for the past 8 years. I have fallen off the beaten path before and did the smith machine, concentration curls, pec dec, etc...and MIGHT grow for a week or two...then nothing.

B True

...please ....Fro was on the program for 7 weeks b-4 he noticed the sore joints which he knew would come about. Therfore the change...what is your point??

Beaten path = smith machine and concentration curls - no offense - but Fro does not want to be a powerlifter or strongman - why would he train that way all year.

One more thing - Deadfifts and Squats and benches for low reps do not help with your goals? Funny....

 

[b fold the truth]

"...please ....Fro was on the program for 7 weeks b-4 he noticed the sore joints which he knew would come about. Therfore the change...what is your point?? "
.....I can do WSB principle workouts for 7 weeks without joint problems...so do they.

"Beaten path = smith machine and concentration curls - no offense - but Fro does not want to be a powerlifter or strongman - why would he train that way all year. "
.....Do you not understand that when I did that program I posted...that I was not powerlifting or doing strongman? I was training like a hardcore bodybuilder. I was training for big bodybuilder size.

"One more thing - Deadfifts and Squats and benches for low reps do not help with your goals? Funny...."
.....Trying to look back and see exactly where I said that that squats, deads, and benches don't help me with my goals...don't think I said that in my posts.

B True

 

[The Shadow]

[B
"One more thing - Deadfifts and Squats and benches for low reps do not help with your goals? Funny...."
.....Trying to look back and see exactly where I said that that squats, deads, and benches don't help me with my goals...don't think I said that in my posts.

B True [/B]

LOL!!


YOu did say that the reason you didn't try ANY of my programs was that they didn't meet your needs. The first one was chock full of ggod stuff....


I think we are too passionate about training.

It's all good.

 

[b fold the truth]

It did have lots of good stuff...just too often for me.

I am very passionate about my training...and trying to go pro. The WSB methods seem to meet my needs closer than any other program.

B True

 

[bm2k]

Fine. Post up your reasoning whenever.

There is a reason why 75% of all pros never do free bar flat benches any more.

* range-of-movement limitations
* stressful on knees when squating (result of ROM)
* limited use of stabilisers
* doesn't promote hip flexibility (squats)
* decreased emphasis on hamstrings during squats (can cause knee problems as it isn't acting as an antagonist during flexion of the quadricep - patella isn't supported as much)
* difficult to setup under the bar and squat in proper form (due to ROM restrictions) - poor form causing undesirable spinal cord stress

Maybe I'm coming from a more athletic, sports-specific point of view...

 

[The Shadow]

* range-of-movement limitations
* stressful on knees when squating (result of ROM)
* limited use of stabilisers
* doesn't promote hip flexibility (squats)
* decreased emphasis on hamstrings during squats (can cause knee problems as it isn't acting as an antagonist during flexion of the quadricep - patella isn't supported as much)
* difficult to setup under the bar and squat in proper form (due to ROM restrictions) - poor form causing undesirable spinal cord stress

Maybe I'm coming from a more athletic, sports-specific point of view...

ROm limitations - not true - muscle is still worked thru a full ROM - for wx - Hammer Strength

Stressfull on Knees - Individual thing Smith is great for Lunges and Front Squats

No hip flexibility - why?

Decreased emm,phasis on hams - true to an extent - that's why I do them on the smith - more quad activation. I dop hams separately

Lilited use of stabilizers - THE reason to use the smith. Stabilizers are ALWAYS the limiting facor in benches. Use the Smith after dum. The stabilizers are already fatigued yet the taget muscle is still fresh.

 

[bm2k]

ROm limitations - not true - muscle is still worked thru a full ROM - for wx - Hammer Strength

Stressfull on Knees - Individual thing Smith is great for Lunges and Front Squats

No hip flexibility - why?

Decreased emm,phasis on hams - true to an extent - that's why I do them on the smith - more quad activation. I dop hams separately

Lilited use of stabilizers - THE reason to use the smith. Stabilizers are ALWAYS the limiting facor in benches. Use the Smith after dum. The stabilizers are already fatigued yet the taget muscle is still fresh.

Personally, I find that I can't perform a Smith machine squat through the same ROM as a free-weight squat, consequently my form isn't as it should be. This leads to stress on my knees.

I don't train for 100% bodybuilding purposes. I play indoor soccer and American football (running back). Consequently, I need my speed. Obviously in an athletic sense I can't neglect stabilzers.

I tend to think that its often an individual thing with Smith machine versus free-weight arguments. Personal goals are the key. For bodybuilding, I can see some benefits from using the Smith machine. Thanks for another point-of-view

 

[The Shadow]

Personally, I find that I can't perform a Smith machine squat through the same ROM as a free-weight squat, consequently my form isn't as it should be. This leads to stress on my knees.

I don't train for 100% bodybuilding purposes. I play indoor soccer and American football (running back). Consequently, I need my speed. Obviously in an athletic sense I can't neglect stabilzers.

I tend to think that its often an individual thing with Smith machine versus free-weight arguments. Personal goals are the key. For bodybuilding, I can see some benefits from using the Smith machine. Thanks for another point-of-view

Very good points.

Remember I am a body builder who trains for maximum muscle development. When I make a post - keep that in mind and my ramblings will tend to make a little more sense.

 

[bm2k]

My new program

I believe in simplicity. When I trained for size...this (or similar variations) worked for me.

Monday: Legs
Squats (full): 3-5 sets of 3-8 reps
Hacks or Leg Press (optional) vary sets and reps
Still Legged Deads: 3-4 sets of 8 reps or less
Standing Calf Raises: 4 sets of 5-10, 30 sec rest between sets
Seated Calf Raises: (optional) 1-3 sets of 10, 30 sec rest between sets

Tuesday: Chest
Flat Bench Press: 4-6 sets of 1-8 reps
Incline Bench Press: 2-4 sets of 3-8 reps
Dips or fly movement: (optional) 1-2 sets, light weight

Thursday: Back
Chins: 3-4 sets, vary reps
Barbell Rows: 2-4 sets, 3-10 reps
Deadlifts: 3-5 sets of 1-5 reps
Seated Pulley Rows or dbell rows: (optional) 1-2 sets, 6-8 reps

Friday: Shoulders, Bic, Tric
Shoulder Presses (bar): 3-5 sets of 3-8 reps
Dbell laterals or Dbell Presses: 1-3 sets of 5-10 reps
Cl Grip Bench Press: 3-5 sets of 1-6 reps
Tric Extension (any variation): 1-3 sets of varying reps (normally 5-12)
Standing Bar Curls: 3-5 sets of 5-10 reps
Curl Variation (any): 1-3 sets of varying reps (normally 5-12)

There are probably tons of holes in this program, but it is the main platform I consistantly used to gain size and strength. You must remember that it is a THINKING and PROGRESSIVE program. You must constantly be changing your reps, weight, sets, optional work and intensity.

Every work day (except for back) is based on a MAIN exercise followed by an AUXILLARY exercise. After you focus on using your heavy weights on your main exercise, move quickly through the others. Focus on weight on the squat, bench, stiff leg, and deadlift. The auxillary exercises can be altered to be used with dbells (cables if you prefer) and are normally done for higher reps.

I'm sure I'll be crucified somehow for this program...but this is what my size/strength program looked like for years.

B True

I've based my new routine on the workout b fold posted.

I'm restricted to upper-body movements due to an injury (osteitis pubis), so here is how my new program looks:

Monday (Chest: 7-12 sets)
Flat Bench Press: 4-6 sets of 1-8 reps
Close Grip Bench Press: 2-4 sets of 1-6 reps
Flys: 1-2 sets, light, optional

Wednesday (Back: 9-14 sets)
Chins: 4-6 sets, varying reps
Barbell Rows: 4-6 sets, 3-10 reps
D-bell Rows: 1-2 sets, 6-8 reps

Friday (Shoulders/Arms: 10-17 sets)
Barbell Shoulder Press: 3-5 sets, 3-8 reps
D-bell Laterals: 1-2 sets, 5-10 reps
Close Grip Bench Press: 1-2 sets, 1-6 reps
Barbell Tricep Extension: 1-2 sets, 5-12 reps
Barbell Curls: 3-4 sets, 5-10 reps
Concentration Curls: 1-2 sets, 5-12 reps

I had to make a few changes due to my equipment and injury restrictions (can't deadlift, don't have an incline bench, pulley/cable, dip station etc...), and completely eliminated the leg day to make it a 3-a-week routine .

I altered the volume to fit my strengths and weaknesses. For example, my back is relatively weaker than my chest and has a few more sets devoted to it. My biceps are relatively weaker than my triceps and need more work.

Obviously this program has a body-building emphasis - something I haven't been doing a lot of lately, but given my injury restrictions I don't have much choice now... It will be interesting to see how I respond to it in the next 3-4 weeks until I see my surgeon (hopefully I'll get the all-clear to get back into leg work immediately, but its likely to be another month after I see him...). I'll be looking to maintain throughout this period, so calories won't be too high. Trying to balance atrophying leg muscles and unwanted fat gain through reduced activity levels

After this program - when fully fit - I am going to switch to a pure mass gaining phase using the "old school" routine, modified very slightly to suit my equipment.

Its difficult putting together a properly balanced program without legs, so I'd really love what I've written up to be completely torn apart and critiqued - there's no better way to learn

 

[The Shadow]

Re: My new program

I've based my new routine on the workout b fold posted.

I'm restricted to upper-body movements due to an injury (osteitis pubis), so here is how my new program looks:

Monday (Chest: 7-12 sets)
Flat Bench Press: 4-6 sets of 1-8 reps
Close Grip Bench Press: 2-4 sets of 1-6 reps
Flys: 1-2 sets, light, optional

Wednesday (Back: 9-14 sets)
Chins: 4-6 sets, varying reps
Barbell Rows: 4-6 sets, 3-10 reps
D-bell Rows: 1-2 sets, 6-8 reps

Friday (Shoulders/Arms: 10-17 sets)
Barbell Shoulder Press: 3-5 sets, 3-8 reps
D-bell Laterals: 1-2 sets, 5-10 reps
Close Grip Bench Press: 1-2 sets, 1-6 reps
Barbell Tricep Extension: 1-2 sets, 5-12 reps
Barbell Curls: 3-4 sets, 5-10 reps
Concentration Curls: 1-2 sets, 5-12 reps

I had to make a few changes due to my equipment and injury restrictions (can't deadlift, don't have an incline bench, pulley/cable, dip station etc...), and completely eliminated the leg day to make it a 3-a-week routine .

I altered the volume to fit my strengths and weaknesses. For example, my back is relatively weaker than my chest and has a few more sets devoted to it. My biceps are relatively weaker than my triceps and need more work.

Obviously this program has a body-building emphasis - something I haven't been doing a lot of lately, but given my injury restrictions I don't have much choice now... It will be interesting to see how I respond to it in the next 3-4 weeks until I see my surgeon (hopefully I'll get the all-clear to get back into leg work immediately, but its likely to be another month after I see him...). I'll be looking to maintain throughout this period, so calories won't be too high. Trying to balance atrophying leg muscles and unwanted fat gain through reduced activity levels

After this program - when fully fit - I am going to switch to a pure mass gaining phase using the "old school" routine, modified very slightly to suit my equipment.

Its difficult putting together a properly balanced program without legs, so I'd really love what I've written up to be completely torn apart and critiqued - there's no better way to learn

Drop the close grip presses on chest day or leg day and make an appropriate substitution.

Otherwise looks pretty good.
Good luck!!