Corn, I want to up the volume of the Old School Training Method.

[The Shadow]

BTW - Smith Machine training is a no-no??

For body building purposes it cannot be beat.

 

[bm2k]

BTW - Smith Machine training is a no-no??

For body building purposes it cannot be beat.

Hmm, I strongly disagree with that... Its pretty late here and I couldn't be bothered writing why, but I should do so tomorrow...

 

[The Shadow]

Hmm, I strongly disagree with that... Its pretty late here and I couldn't be bothered writing why, but I should do so tomorrow...

Fine. Post up your reasoning whenever.

There is a reason why 75% of all pros never do free bar flat benches any more.

 

[frorider6]

Well, I did the chest routine last night. A HUGE DIFFERENCE in how I felt and how the muscle felt. Last week, I incline benched 225 for 5 reps on my last 2 sets. Yesterday, I had to drop the weight to 155 to get to 10 reps (I did close my grip in about 2 inches). I've been training low reps for a while so I think this switch to higher reps will shock the hell out of my body and force it to adapt again.

I think my body adapts to a new routine in about 4-5 weeks. And even when I'm in a "set" routine, I still tweek it quite often to try and get the maximum I can out of it.

I'm also constantly trying to up the weight or reps each time I work out. That's why I feel my training log is one of the most important things I've adopted.

 

[The Shadow]

Well, I did the chest routine last night. A HUGE DIFFERENCE in how I felt and how the muscle felt. Last week, I incline benched 225 for 5 reps on my last 2 sets. Yesterday, I had to drop the weight to 155 to get to 10 reps (I did close my grip in about 2 inches). I've been training low reps for a while so I think this switch to higher reps will shock the hell out of my body and force it to adapt again.

I think my body adapts to a new routine in about 4-5 weeks. And even when I'm in a "set" routine, I still tweek it quite often to try and get the maximum I can out of it.

I'm also constantly trying to up the weight or reps each time I work out. That's why I feel my training log is one of the most important things I've adopted.

Very good.

You have discovered that YOU respond best to shorter cycles. I recommend that you switch every 4 weeks.

 

[frorider6]

Very good.

You have discovered that YOU respond best to shorter cycles. I recommend that you switch every 4 weeks.

You're right. My first time on the Old School program, I switched after 4 weeks. This time my gains stopped after 4-5 weeks. I'm pretty damn happy to learn this about myself.

Also, changing routines helps my motivation. Every time I change I can't wait to get back to the gym!

 

[ballast]

Just saw this thread and I didn't realize until now how much interest there was in the old three full body sessions per week routines.I just started a Bill Starr routine and forgot how much I benefited from this type of training.Here is mine:
Monday-Heavy Day
1.Back Squats 5x5
2.Incline Bench Presses 5x5
3.Deadlifts 5x5 or Clean-Grip High Pulls 5x3

Wednesday-Light Day
1.Front or Overhead Squats 5x5
2.Standing Presses 5x5
3.Seated or Standing Good Mornings 5x8

Friday-Medium Day
1.Back Squats 3x5-2x3(using 5-10 ibs more weight than heavy day)
2.Standing Presses 3x5-3x3
3.Dynamic Shrugs 6x5

I end each session with a few sets of ab work and as I get acclimated to the frequency and volume, I'll add in additonal exercises like calf raises,glute-ham raises and beach work like chins and curls.

 

[b fold the truth]

Number 1 - Any routine will become stale. In this case it happened to be a strength phase. As you up the intensity, signs of overtraining creep in - such as sore joints. That is just a fact of life.

You state that "you should never have a problem recovering if the program is effecient"......well....if you are upping the intensity at each workout as you should(that is called progressive resistance...either bump the reps or the weight)....recoverability will suffer. Surely you agree with that??!?!


So you think that high-volume and non-traumatic don't belong in the same sentence? Why?? If I increase the volume from 5x5 to 3 sets of 10...is that not consided less traumatic(joint-wise especially) with respect to the 5x5??


Fold - you stated somewhere that you got smaller from strongman training and that you are generally among the smaller guys at the elite level at which you compete.....maybe you are as big and strong as you are in spite of your training methods...not because of them...

Any routine will stay stale if you never modify it. A solid routine needs very little modification. There also is a difference between muscle overtraining and joint overtraining. He was suffering from joint overtraining (from what I have read).

Why should you have to up the intensity every single workout? In my bodybuilding program...you have the choice of weights and reps...and to a degree...exercises. It is not just cycling weights or reps...but one of the keys is to cycle intensity. I can not train like a mad mad 100% of the time. I can train like a mad man 75% of the time though...and grow.

For me, and I guess that may be the key here, doing a 5x5 routine and a 3x10 routine is not much different. If you are still training super intensely...it is still taxing to the joints.

"Fold - you stated somewhere that you got smaller from strongman training and that you are generally among the smaller guys at the elite level at which you compete.....maybe you are as big and strong as you are in spite of your training methods...not because of them... "
.....For starters...that was very low. You are suggesting that I am big and strong by luck? That is funny...have you not seen my transformation pics?

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=51836

Is what you are saying something similar to what your wife spoke of? That you had big legs yet you rarely ever trained them? So...you have nicely shaped quads in spite of your training methods...right?

I took great offense to that last paragraph...great offense. Maybe there is a reason why I am 285 at the moment and you are in the 220's..yet we are the same height. It might be that I am fat...but I am not that fat. It might have something to do with me not doing the Old School 3 day a week program...might. It also might have something to do with me NOT using the smith machine. It might have something to do with me doing heavy deadlifts, squats, barbell bench press...etc...

How was it you phrased it when you were talking to me...something about me eclipsing the sun?

Sorry...just VERY offended.

B True

 

[The Shadow]

Bottom line:

You are a big and strong person. Elite in the US strong. Freaky strong.

You stated that you lost size once you started strong man training. So despite the training program you are still 285. That is my point. Stong man training caused you to lose size. You stated this yourself.


Maybe you are right. Maybe it is because you don't use machines.
Maybe machines would help you break 300 again - that is not the point.

My only problem is that you rip on a program by looking at it - without even trying it. You continually espouse heavy basic training philsophy - which is what this program is all about. That is what I don't understand. How can you rip on something you won't try. I have said not one word about your strongman training because I have not tried it. That seems hypocritical. My only comment was reiterating the statement by you about losing size to show you my point.

This is nothing personal at all.

YOu guys continue on with whatever traing routine you wish.

This is not worth the effort.

 

[b fold the truth]

Bottom line:

You are a big and strong person. Elite in the US strong. Freaky strong.

You stated that you lost size once you started strong man training. So despite the training program you are still 285. That is my point. Stong man training caused you to lose size. You stated this yourself.


Maybe you are right. Maybe it is because you don't use machines.
Maybe machines would help you break 300 again - that is not the point.

My only problem is that you rip on a program by looking at it - without even trying it. You continually espouse heavy basic training philsophy - which is what this program is all about. That is what I don't understand. How can you rip on something you won't try. I have said not one word about your strongman training because I have not tried it. That seems hypocritical. My only comment was reiterating the statement by you about losing size to show you my point.

This is nothing personal at all.

YOu guys continue on with whatever traing routine you wish.

This is not worth the effort.

I am big and fairly strong for a US strongman competitor...but I made myself this way. I wasn't born this way. At 152lbs I barely towel bounce benched 95lbs and could not squat the bar on the smith machine (thought I was doing the right thing). I have came a long way through hard work on the basic exercises.

I have lost size with my strongman training program but increased my performance on the field. The program that I outlined above is not what I am doing now. The program above that I suggested is what brought me up over 300lbs. I did that in my garage with a power rack, make-shift dbells, and a few bars.

When I became focused on strongman training I turned around quite a bit. I did more explosive work and became an athlete. It does not matter how big I am or how strong I look if I can not do the events. With my current program...I am getting stronger and better at my events...so it is working. With the program I posted earlier...my goals were to get bigger...and I did that with that program.

I do not see a reason to try one of your programs because they do not help with my goals. Fro saw the same things wrong with this latest program that I did...no deadlifts, smith machine, and too many isolation movements. Never think that I have done the exact same program for the past 8 years. I have fallen off the beaten path before and did the smith machine, concentration curls, pec dec, etc...and MIGHT grow for a week or two...then nothing.

I am a firm believer in hard, heavy, and compound. I have proved that it works...through myself.

B True