GoldenDelicious said:
justify this statement. i would like a study of decent quality, and not just the abstracts that you try to pass off as convincing evidence to the uninitiated. i contest that DNP blocks the action of insulin.
justify this statement also. i disagree. the reason that dnp works is through its retardation of oxidative phosphorilation on the mitochondrial cell wall, not through any action on insulin.
i love these statements. perhaps you should look up the action of a few neurotoxins before you assert that dnp is the only agent which opens sodium and potassium channels.
really? so using a low GI carbohydrate such as fructose in lieu of higher GI carbs wont achieve the same effect? has the rationale of eating fruit rather than white bread slipped your mind? (or did it stay still while your mind was slipping? i suspect the latter)
of course the daily ingestion of both of these very cheap agents is insufficient to accomplish the purpose of mopping up a few free radicals. if you want to recyle, fonz, stick to saving aluminium cans. leave other peoples drug therapy out of it.
wow that sounds really nifty and complicated. you must be very smart. i love the way you skirt around the subject at hand but dont actually explain anything in such a way that everyone reading it understands. what was it that einstein said again? if you cant explain something simply, you probably dont understand it well enough? yeah, sounds like it
really? how? please back the statement up with high quality evidence, as usual. to be a bot more precise, anything derived from the back of a cereal box IS NOT HIGH QUALITY
wow. sounds coooooooooool
fonz, when you get the itch to reply to things that you dont really understand, just repeat to yourself, over and over: "it is better for me to say nothing, and have people assume i am stupid, rather than open my mouth and remove all doubt"
now excuse me while i clean my shoes from all the bullshit that plopped on them while i was reading your post
I hate embarrasing people, but you leave me no choice. You're talking to one of the four people who have the most knowledge regarding DNP. You're an amateur compared to me.
Anyways:
Question #1:
"justify this statement. i would like a study of decent quality, and not just the abstracts that you try to pass off as convincing evidence to the uninitiated. i contest that DNP blocks the action of insulin."
1: Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1989 May;86(9):3209-13. Related Articles, Links
Tyrosine phosphorylation of the insulin receptor is not required for receptor internalization: studies in 2,4-dinitrophenol-treated cells.
Backer JM, Kahn CR, White MF.
Joslin Diabetes Center, Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital, Boston, MA 02215.
The relation between insulin-stimulated autophosphorylation of the insulin receptor and internalization of the receptor was studied in Fao rat hepatoma cells.
Treatment of Fao cells with 2,4-dinitrophenol for 45 min depleted cellular ATP by 80% and equally inhibited insulin-stimulated receptor autophosphorylation, as determined by immunoprecipitation of surface-iodinated or [32P]phosphate-labeled cells with anti-phosphotyrosine antibody. In contrast, internalization of the insulin receptor and internalization and degradation of 125I-labeled insulin by 2,4-dinitrophenol-treated cells were normal.
These data show that autophosphorylation of the insulin receptor is not required for the receptor-mediated internalization of insulin in Fao cells and suggest that insulin receptor recycling is independent of autophosphorylation.
PMID: 2470095 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Go back to Pharmacy School kid. You just got owned. The reason why 2,4 dinitrophenol works is because it depletes cellular ATP. The energy is the released off as heat. However,
DEPLETION of ATP by 2,4 dinitrophenol(DNP)
INHIBITED insulin-stimulated receptor auto-phosphorylation. This means that the insulin-dependant transporters WERE NOT ABLE TO translocate to the outside of the cell membrane. Which means DNP BLOCKS INSULIN MEDIATED RECEPTORS. It does not let the insulin dependent transporters do their job. It blocks them.
And as said in the last sentence, INSULIN RECEPTOR RECYCLING is INDEPENDENT of autophosphorylation. This means that when DNP blocks ATP production, INSULIN DOES NOT attach itself to its receptors outside the cell, because they have translocated inside, due to the DNP.
Question #2
The rationale behind using low GI carbs is to REDUCE the SPEED and amplitude of the insulin RELEASE from the pancreas. Because the higher the transient insulogenic surge, the higher the heat production, as your body is more rapidly trying to produce ATP. The opposite stands for low GI carbs. As the speed and amplitude of the insulogenic spike is slower and smaller, the heat production is going to be lower, because the body is then trying to produce ATP at a musch slower rate.
See, Heat production due to DNP is a function of the Glycaemic Index of the meal, the amount of macronutrients consumed(and calories), and the amount of DNP in your system. The more DNP in your system, the more ATP will be blocked, and therfore more heat will be released to the surroundings.
Sorry GD, but this is more my little realm...we're in the realm of calculus and partial differentiation involving three substrates(Prots, carbs, fats), and the amount of heat generated by a meal with a certain amount of these substartes, taking into account the Glycaemic index, and the ATP blocking speed due to the DNP in your system at the present time. I already wrote an equation(very detailed in fact) about 2 hyears ago, detailing EXACTLY how much heat could be generated by DNP depending on a whole host of variables.
Now do everybody a big favor and go back to READING more about DNP. You're knowledge regarding it is downright PRIMITIVE.
And to make you GO AWAY:
"i love these statements. perhaps you should look up the action of a few neurotoxins before you assert that dnp is the only agent which opens sodium and potassium channels?"
Cyanide does the exact same thing. It blocks ATP production. But is much more deadly. As it is able to block it completely at lower dosages than DNP. And since the body only has about 1% of ATP reserve at any given time, death can result in minutes from the complete blockage of ATP by Cyanide.
Just call me Dr. Fonz
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do you mind if i talk to the real fonz, split personality number 1? 
