Just close this thread now, keeping it open isnt going to benifit anyone anymore, seems like backing up your answers this reasoning/scientific research is to much like hard work, iv found my information elsewhere thanks for the advice on pct its been took on board, wonder if i started a thread with something like "i want to get massive" and give 5 lines about this lad in the gym says iv gotta do this i would have got twice the number of replys? Not trying to insult people here its mearly an observation from reading over posts in the passed.