Where Is The Missing Link On My Deadlifts?

[powerlifterjay]

I have a few month before my next full power meet. First one in a year and a half. My deadlift has become my number 1 priority. I do no pulling from the floor. Which is a first. My bench and squat are perfect so i need no help there. So I brought in a westside guru for his deadlifting help. He has me doing ..

week 1 rack pulls. Up to 620 with no straps. from right below the knee. Then i put straps on and got 700lbs. Grip is weak.
then we do good mornings. Seated i go up to 405 for 3 to 5. Standing i lose some form and go around 400 for 3 . With standing good mornings we have found that my hams might be the weaklink.

week 2 Stiff legged deadl ifts. Did these for th efirst time last week. off a 3 inch block i did 315 x5 405 x 5 455x1 could have doen a couple more but back was TIGHT!
then we did reverse Hypers. I am weak at this. got up to 200 lbs for 5 or so. But got good reps going up.

But this is just a sample of what we did the last 2 weeks. Dont know what i can dead lift though. Everyone thinks it is one minor thing holding me back, wether its my hams my grip or what.

My last heavy box squat i did from about 1 1/2 below parallel with just briefs and belt, no wraps or anythign i did 660lbs on my max day. Last week i did 10 sets 0f 2 going up to 545lbs and lost no speed. Tonight is max night on the box and will go 675 on the box. I should have peopel from my gym that see me lift vouch for just how wide i squat. My toes actually hang off the side of the power rack. So my hip gotta have some strength. But i bet i would struggle a 565 pull right now. And i dont understand why i cant fuckin pull!

Help any suggestions?

 

[ZZuluZ]

Maybe, and this is my very humble opinion....you just haven't deadlifted enough. Maybe it's not a question of a weak link.

I know, I know.... Westside training doesn't do actual deadlifts, but still. Your nervous system has to learn the lift, you'll probably get better by simply doing deadlifts.

Take this for what it's worth, my total is probably about 1/3rd of what yours is. It might be worth a shot.

GL man, your totals are amazing,

-Zulu

 

[1-dawg]

Actually Westside does dl from the floor now, almost weekly. The pull with 50-60 percent of their max for multiple singles.

Where are you missing?? If you are having trouble getting weights off the floor -- check where you are lining up at, if you are weak inthe middle and lockout -- glute and hams. I haven't seen too many people who pull conv who are weak off the floor. My grip is always holding me back - just keep working on it. Just remember your dl is all about lower back, glutes, hams, abs. Make them all stronger and your dl will most definitely go up. Rack pulls have never done a damn thing for me and I have tried just about everything. If you able to pull 700 form the rack then you are not putting th ebar where you are weak,. YOu need to start at your weakpoint. If you start too far below it you will just blast right thru it w/o working it. If you start abv it then you competely ignore the problem.

 

[Screwball]

Deadlift Help...

I assume you pull Sumo to take advantage of your wide squat stance. If you are pulling conventional then I would try to transition to Sumo. Where are you getting stuck in your pull? Off the floor? At your knees? At lockout? The plan you have put together for the past two weeks looks good. Stiff-legged deadlifts and Romanian Deadlifts will definitely help your pull especially if done off of a block. I like seated good mornings a lot. It's like a prestretch of your entire lower body (hams, quads, hips, glutes) with a heavy good-morning to finish it off. I like them better than standing versions of the good-morning.

My best heavy-max box squat (1" below) is 575 lbs. with just a belt. I can't squat in the power rack in my gym because my feet fall outside of the cage. I squat in front of the rack so when I dump it's going to the floor. I pull around 625 lbs. with just a belt. My grip also holds me back, I think I could pull 25-30 lbs. more if my grip were better.

I don't understand why you can't pull more. I know you're strong enough so maybe it's your technique. Have you had experienced lifters critique your form?

These are some suggestions...

Exercises to increase your deadlift:

Heavy Rack Pulls
Stiff-legged Deadlifts (off blocks)
Romanian Deadlifts
Seated Good-mornings
Good-morning Squats
Squat exercises that throw your center of gravity forward such as Front Squats, Hack Squats, Overhead Squats, Zercher Squats and Belt Squats to help maintain an upright position instead of the unwanted rounding
High Pulls, Power Cleans and Hang Cleans to add explosiveness to the deadlift

Exercises to increase your grip:

Heavy Barbell & Dumbbell Static Holds for time
Hanging Bodyweight (added weight, 1-armed) static holds for time
Farmer's Walk
1-arm Deadlifts with a barbell
C of C Grippers
Plate Pinches (2-25's are hard for me to hold for any significant time)
Standard Wrist & Reverse Curls

Hope this helps!

- Screwball

 

[powerlifterjay]

Thanks for all the replys. First off for those that dont know i pull conv. I think my weak spot is between my shins and knee. Not sure though. Cause i have pulled 585 to my knees in the past when i pulled a 550 in the gym. But in the rack i pull from the bottom 2 pins. That 700 was my last workout and it was from the 2nd pin right below the knee. On the first pin i have pulled 630. Big difference 2 inches made. I feel like the bar does move off the floor quick but then stops, right below the knee. As of now i havent pulled in almost 1 year now. So i dont know where i am at. Not sure i wanna know yet! I know when i could pull 530lbs in the gym i couldnt budge 585 off the bottom hole in the power rack. And i Box squat only when i aint suitting to hit a big one. So box squats have helped. 1 dawg where is the best place for your feet to be when the start of the pull begins? I usually start with my shins on the bar. If that helps. I will concentrate on the hips , glutes , lower back and get those numbers up. We did farmers walk for grip last week in the gym. Holy shit! Those could work. I have a cheap little gripper and realize the hand that gives out (my left ) is way weaker then my right. The left is a under hand grip also. Should i try to change hands? Oh ya i forgot though i squat extremely wide i do not pull sumo basically cause it feels awkward to me. Very. Thanks guys.

 

[GRIMMER]

When i started to pull with the bar about 2 inches away from my shins instead of scraping them i got stronger. It helps keep your shoulders behind the bar. Dave tate just wrote an article on pulling. I can't remember where i read it though , somebody posted a link to it somewhere on here.

Have you guys started to shirt up for march yet?

 

[GRIMMER]

Heres where the article is. www.testosterone.net its in the past article section #194 called The Dead Zone.

 

[brianmincher]

that article Grimmer is talking about can be found on testosterone.net. Go to the search function and punch in Dave Tate, it will be in there amongst a bunch of other stuff. I read that article and immediately pulled a 30 or 40 lb P.R.

I am shirting up for a meet in march, but unfortunately it will be a long ways west of you guys.

sumo's always felt real weird to me as well, but I tried pulling sumo with my squat suit on and the straps up, and hit the PR mentioned above. Still not much of a deadlifter, but every little bit helps.

B

 

[I'D RATHER BE DEADLIFTING]

I am a weak squatter.


That being said, I find deadlifting frequently to keep my deads moving up. It is my best lift and my progress totally sucked when I started doing a lot of rack work. What got my deads up the best and still seems to be working are heavy sldl's and heavy pulls from the floor.


Also, you may want to do some heavy pull throughs which seems to work my muscles that I finish the lockout on a dead with. Just really focus on that squeeze at the top.

 

[powerlifterjay]

Grimmer we are shirting up MOnday for the meet. I will check out the article. Anything will do for me at the moment. Brian keep us up on your shirt lifts. I will give accounts of what we do leading up to the march 16th bench meet. Thanks guys i will just keep plugging away at it. If ya'll think of anything else throughit in for me please.

 

[bigokie]

Deadlift help

The article they mentioned will help you tremendously. One of the main points is that you need to keep your shoulder behind the barbell at the beginning, this will help you past your knees. Also, when you pull you should pull backwards, so much so that if you pull real light you should almost fall backwards. I envision lifting my toes off the ground and pushing through my heels. Another thing that helps is when setting up to deadlift don't stay down a long time just get a grip, get down, get into position and pull.
Also, doing dynamic deads after dyn. squats will help alot. Wave up from 50-70% over four weeks then start over again. Use chains draped over the bar. I usually do about 5-6 singles. Only do singles on this.
A max effort lift that might help is to use a weight that you can barely manage off the floor. Then get on a small step in the power rack and pull from above the knees. Then drop the pins one space. Keep going until the bar brushes the top of your feet.
And as for grip, farmers' walks are about the best. But a very close second is holds with a thick bar. I have a 3" bar. These are killers. If someone uses 250-300 on a three inch bar they have a huge grip.
I hope all my babbling helps. Good luck

 

[1-dawg]

PLJay--

In response to your post abv. You and I are built not identical but similiar. My best pulling position is not th ebest according to th textbook. I talked with dave tate about this the other day. My feet are about 1 ft or so aprt, my knees come out over the bar and my shoulders are over the bar, not behind it. If I set up with my shoulders behind the bar, I stall about at the knees. This is what screwed my dl up for the past year -- I was trying to setup the way most peopl should. It would be easier to tell you if I saw a video. AMOF, I have you on video from oen the meets we lifted at in Daytona -- I'll take a good look at it and let you know what I think. I do know that you need to move your hands in a little bit, and move your feet closer together.

 

[Cubanito17]

Hey Jay I know you don't do any speed work but did you ever think of throwing in dynamic deadlifts these helped my deadlift go up 65lbs in 6 weeks. 8X1 60,63,66,70% with a 4 week difference. Just do them to see how fast you are. I'm guessing this might help you some, I'm not really sure if it'll hurt your shoulder. But it's a choice.

 

[powerlifterjay]

Big okie thanks thats alot of info. I need to experiment with lighter weight to see if it will work fo rme.

1 dawg I do pull alittle different now then back then. I have got my ass down a little more, And i am closer on feet spacing and hands. But i do know as low as i think my ass is getting when that bar comes off the floor i am dam near in a straight legged position.

Over all the pulling,back and up is somthing i am awhere of but do not do. As I sit here and think about it , it seems scary to do.
But one thing besides pro help is i do need some deadlifting time under my belt. I read that article and seems logical, but practice will be the only way for me. Its like reading his benching articles. I do what he says really without reading them cause it comes naturally, i am not a deadlifter. And last year dcided i probably wouldnt three lift again now here i am getting ready for one. Only reason is i feel my squats are better then my bench and would like to regester it in a meet. So th edeadlift is top priority. And the speed sets seem like they would help me more with form. Right? I dont wanna pull heavy from the floor righ tnow. I have weaknesses that need attention first. When do i do speed deadlifts? How many sets reps i have no chains just bands. Can they be used? Thanks guys.

 

[Cubanito17]

HOLY SHIT JAY you mean I'm actually gonna get to help you out on something. OK normally speed deads are done on dynamic squat day right after the squat normally after low box squatting then I personally will do 8X1 60% first week 63% second week 66% third week 70% fourth week then after the fourth week go back to 60% and you'll see your speed should have gotten faster like I posted with the percentages. This will help your form and your explosin try to do them and keep it from the time you go up to when you come down with it under 2.5 seconds. Your working on your speed but at the same time you don't want a shitty form. About the bands and chains I'm sure you can use them, but honestly I can't help you much with these b/c I only used a band once when i went down to lift with bob. One thing that I do which you probably don't is that every 6 weeks I go for a max so my %'s change every 6 weeks. Good luck man let me know if I can help in other ways. I'ma try and find the link to speed deads and improving them and post it on here for ya.

 

[powerlifterjay]

You Little terd! You have learned aton already. Thank you. It sounds like someting i need to try. I forgot last week we did a couple sets of cleans. Do you think (cause you do them) this will help with speed? Let me Know.

 

[Cubanito17]

YOUR WELCOME BEAST. I'm sure that speed deads will help now for cleans that is a full body explosion from what i've learned. Wait you did cleans outta curiousity how much did you clean or what did you work with. I hate doing cleans but it's because i'm not good at them once i get good i'm sure i'll like them that's how I am. I'm pretty sure that cleaning will help you if you get stuck at the first pull on your deadlift and it will help you for speed, BUT here's the thing that I learned I can't do You cant do both speed cleans or cleans period and dynamic deads on the same day too much of the same movement. So if you still want to do cleans you can do them for a ME movement or extra on ME day but if you want to strictly help out your deads then just stick with ME dead and dynamic deads after dynamic squats.

 

[Cubanito17]

I found the link towards the bottom of the page is where you can find bands for deads

http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_127resist.html


I'm still looking for the rest of them

 

[Cubanito17]

I sound like endpoint now, no offense brother

Here you go Jay I found this one and it talks about Tate deadlifting by singles for speed and what he found he was doing wrong with form, etc.

http://www.testosterone.net/articles/194dead2.html

Hope those helped and if you need more i've started my own lil web library with shortcuts to sites. I really do sound like endpoint and that's not a bad thing. I just love to help when I know I can.

 

[1-dawg]

Jay -- I don't use chains at all for pulling but I do use bands occaisioanlly. I take a green or blue band and loop it thru my belt, then I stand on each end and pull. This does 2 things -- it teaches you to pull yoru hips t hru at the top and it makes you get in the correct starting position. Speed pulls are done right after your squats. I don't pull hevay in the gym, except for bout 6 weeks or so before a meet. I like to take one or 2 heavier singles -- nothing near a pr but somewhere in the 90 percent range of my opener.

 

[powerlifterjay]

Thanks Cubanito. I will re-read some of that stuff and try to incorporate it. As far as cleans go , Tues was the first time i have ever even attempted a clean. I couldnt in the 4 sets i did figure out the little hip bump, so i did them completely wrong. Menaing i snatched it from the floor all the way up to the point were i just rotated my elbows enough to get under it. The bar never touched my legs one time. I will figure it out, but any way i did 135 for 5 then 185 for 3 then 225 for 3 then 275 for 1. I know it aint much but you should have heard the laughter when i did them going straight form the floor to my chest. I migh ttry them again and will let you knwo what i do with them.

1 dawg that is a great idea. You mean whne you actually squat down to grasp the bar for a pull you have the band through your belt and under your feet? If i understood that correct that is fuckin ingenious! Good idea. Thank you . Those will diffiently be done.

Also do you ever suspend the bands in the rack and pull were the weight gets heavier as you go up? Those are my favorite for board presses and Richie M from Orlando does the deadlift kind. What do you thnik of those?

 

[bigokie]

Deads

The lightened deads are very helpful. Especially if you get stuck somewhere after you get past your knees. As for speed deads, don't go above 70% too often. Another way to use bands for speed deads is to stand on a short box in the power rack with the bar on pins. Put the bar at the heighth it would be if you pulled off the floor. Then attach a band around both ends of the bar and run it under your feet so your standing on it. Then do your pulls. You might want to limit it to 5 the first few times, as its kinda different.
It does take a little practice to learn to pull backwards but once you figure it out it will help lots, so will the band deadlifts on speed day. The great thing about these are that they let you work on form and get lots of reps in without overtraining. Good luck

 

[1-dawg]

No, I do not do the rev band dl. Actually I do zero max effort pulling. I dl like shit in the gym so I don't even waste my time by doing rack pulls, rev band dl's, etc. I spend the majority of my time doing good am's -- about 10 out of 12 weeks are good ams. Yes, you have the band setup pictured right.

 

[1-dawg]

oh, and the band thing is done for your speed pulls. Be prepared -- they will kick the shit out of you.

 

[powerlifterjay]

Excellent ideas guys. Shit if i cant get soemthing from what i have read i dont knwo what will do it. If ya'll think of anything else let me know. But thanks for the help. I need it!

 

[Cubanito17]

DAMN a 275 clean I wish I could clean that. One thing I've learned from doing them when they say explode from the ground they mean EXPLODE like shooting straight up into the air. You should always face straight up. One more thing which I'm not sure if it will help for deads or not but I know it helps for cleans when you put one leg say ur left leg under tha bar positioned and you have ur right leg back it creates more kinetic energy which will help you explode more. I might wanna try this for deads myself see if it works. I know I do it for cleans.