When will people finally learn how to train??

[Debaser]

Those who know me on the training board will see that I'm rehashing a lot of info here. Here is a disturbing note that I need to address...

I am natural. I probably will always be natural. However, I have absolutely nothing against steroids, if they are used responsibly. But it seems to me that 3/4 of the time this is not the case. Let's take a look at something, shall we? Some simple figures:

Anabolic board 822201 posts 93439 threads
Training board 112805 posts 10567 threads

This board gets roughly 8 times the traffic. Why do so many here fail to take their training and diet seriously and instead turn to gear? I couldn't even count the number of times someone has made a post like "H3LP ME W/MY 1RST CYCLEZ!!" You open the thread, and he states that he is 6'3", 180 lbs and has "tried everything." What a joke. And then many of you start prescribing him stacks that I would never touch in my lifetime, if I decided to start. Here's a thought, direct them to the training board! And maybe some of you guys should go once in awhile too. I find it odd that there are so many experienced guys here, with a genuine love for the sport, who simply don't talk about training or diet. THAT'S how you can help people out! Here is the situation as it stands:

1. Many people who have "tried everything" have really just tried "every kind of 4 or 5 day muscle split SH0CK program that flex has to offer."

2. A productive, logical training routine like DC training or HST might be suggested to them (at least on the training board).

3. They say "N0 W4Y DUD3Z," stating that "it's impossible" for 1-2 sets per bodypart to stimulate growth.

4. They don't gain anymore, and are probably overtrained into oblivion from eating half their bodyweight in protein grams a day while doing 20 sets to failure 5 days a week.

5. They give up and turn to steroids, and start gaining again. They still don't know shit about training, but the drugs make up for this.

I will always direct anyone with a hypertrophy focus to either DC training or HST (Hypertrophy-Specific Training) . Both reached a similar conclusion on the best way to grow muscle. Here is what 90% of this board needs to discover, whether on their own or from outside assistance:

FREQUENCY, NOT VOLUME, IS THE KEY TO RAPID GROWTH.

All things considered, do you want to grow 52 times a year (working out once a week, and this is assuming you're NOT overtraining with too many failure sets or excessive volume), or two or even THREE TIMES THAT? If you are able to recover and grow in 2-3 days (by using low volume and progressive load) then why wait another 4-5 days before training again? The answer is because since many of you are stuck doing 20 sets per bodypart with a lot of intensity, it takes you that long for your CNS to recover.

Okay I need to go to work, so I have to cut this short here. There are differences between HST and DC, you should choose one based on your goals (this is assuming you're in the market for muscular gain, and not powerlifting and the like):

DC: Very rapid strength and muscle gains.
HST: Less in the way of strength but probably more muscle gain.

As for diet, I recommend DC's diet to everybody. Pick a program and start gaining again.

 

[gwl9dta4]

You are right, most just don't want to look at their training. They WANT the juice. It's an excuse in my book. I mean it pretty obvious that you can add up to 30-40 lbs in a year with DC training. With that being said one should not use drugs for a year or 2 from starting a dc routine. In 2 years you should be able to pack on close to 60 pernmanent punds, naturally. So why juice.


If you are not gaining naturally you will gain shittily on the juice as well. It will only mask the problem, which will promptly return with a vengence post cycle.

But it's all right i am sure that the intelligent people will figure this out sooner or later, but most never will.

 

[bigp3]

Agree,, most people are numbnuts when it comes to training. I was much bigger and stronger nattie then a lot of the dudes are at my gym all juiced up. I think you need at least 3 years of nattie training before turning to aas. I have always used a low volume training style ala Mike Mentzer and it works great and even better when you are on.

 

[joshbb1]

bump

bump, good post bro. This is the gear forum, which would probablly explain the lack of diet/form topics. But you do raise a very good point. Most of the guys at my gym just don't know what they're doing. They have the "get as big as possible, as fast as possible" mentality. They think the more oil inject, the better they will look. I too began with the same mentality, but have learned since. Now I can take very small amounts of gear, even down to 200mg/test per week alone, and have great results, w/ proper diet and form of course. But I don't claim to have mastered the sport in any way. I think everyone is different and even their own bodys and metabolism, etc changes over time. So I believe that I'm always learning the basics, and relearning and relearning. - josh

 

[joshbb1]

bigp3

Good to see another bro from VA on the board!!

 

[Him1]

Debaser, I'm a fellow DC trainer. I'm kinda surprised that you haven't gotten flamed for this post, b/c your post is a knock to the ego for some. But, you're so right. Karma, buddy.

 

[Seth]

Good post,
I rarely go to the training board, but it is more fun to read about steroids then reading about lifting.

But there is no need for someone experienced to go there every day. You need to pick a routine and stick with it for a few weeks / months to see how you respond.

 

[halfaclue]

For what's worth.......I tried gear for the first time a few years ago. AT the time I was training very hard but for a cardio based sport of rowing. I was stacking andro and nor andro and creatine and tribus and I was around 12% BF at 185lbs and 6'0 tall. When I stopped focusing on the reps and went after the weight when I got out of college my strength was moving up and my size wasn't. I got a job as a bar-back and saw the bouncers and wanted to look like they did. This great bro told me how to train better (naturally) and after 6 months and adding 10lbs of solid muscle I wanted more. And I didn't want to wait. For me that is why i turned to gear. I know I could have stayed natural and reached my goals in a year but i could also use gear and achieve my goals in 3 months. Each year after I would do one cycle a year and train the rest of the year naturally. Each time waiting til I started to plateau. This year I wanted to do a body building show so it was the first time I did two cycles in a year. Point of my run on. I agree dieting and training is huge and I know that nothing in life is free so with gear and rapid results come all the risks and side effects. I personally do not know any natural body builders that are as big as me. I know they exist you see them in the natural shows but the size comparison isn't even close. Look at the last two years of winners of the natural events...John Hanson 5'8" 200lbs Naturall MR.O and Mr Universe....Lee Preist weighs more then 230 at 5'5" or whatever he is and John won his first show in 1979....so after 22 years of victories the man is a shredded 200lbs? Take that dedication and add a cycle a year and Hanson is 260lbs. I don't believe that people should turn to gear without having any background in serious training but that is a personal decision and I think the bros on this board might not agree with a 19 year old on gear but if the kid has it in his mind that he is going to do it then you might as well eduacted him so he can be safe. I will end with this...i always put way to much into juice and not enough into my diet, this year I learned what a diet was and how to use it to your advantage and it makes a huge difference. I give you mad props for putting this post up and I hope people respect your thoughts and don't post any crap on it, but if you want real size then natural is not the way to do it. people may disagree and you can probably find a few natural freaks who have good size but steriods can make up for what genetics can not provide.

 

[cleverlandshark2001]

Great post!
One thing though, remember not to make broad generalizations such as "frequency is the key to growth not volume."
If I had to state what I thought the single most important factor would be I'd say intensity. Did you break down the muscle fiber, did you give 100%? Volume can be an inhibiting factor, so next I would ask did I stress the muscle too much?
Just some things to think about.

 

[DepressiveJuice]

I find it odd that there are so many experienced guys here, with a genuine love for the sport, who simply don't talk about training or diet

back when elite was a good board, people would throw in their workouts and diets along with their cycles. seems like now those threads either get moved or get replies like "go to the diet/training forum". but i agree with what you are saying