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I know two brothers : one of them was Mr Holland way back and he even competed against Arnold in the 80's. He is good genetics+roids, but his brother has INSANE GENETICS and uses no roids at all. before his brother touched the iron, most people already thought he was bodybuilding because was already huge and had some shape as well.
His brother convinced him to train with him on a 4 days a week basis and within 1 month he already had to buy larger clothes (and we are not talking pot-belly here) . Most people would dismiss this as AAS use, but i KNOW that he is one of those rare freaks by nature.
As a matter a fact after 3 months he decided to cut back on his training volume , as het got a responsible management job in the telecom industry and he "grew too fast" and began to look like a Jay cutler piece of meat, leading his customers to believe that he couldn't possibly be a smart fast acting executive....
He now trains 2 days a week only (upper body / lowerbody day) and still gets much more out of it than most of us would.
But he is one rare exceptions (i also know one super ripped guy and he eats junk food bigtime) and I think that we should rephrase the question to "How big or cut can the average Joe or slightly more talented talented Joe get naturally"?
I certainly think that a nice streamlined beach physique is possible for every average joe if they are willing to put the time and work in. Maybe not freaky big or super ripped, but you can find a balance in between : some size, combined with a decent %BF like say 8-10 percent. and above all, if you consitantly work all body parts and are not one of those that skips legs etc, you most likely develope a SYMMETRICAL physique wich gets you better ratings than that AAS upperbody here with 20" guns walking on sticks.
I have nothing against AAS but you got to set realistic goals for yourself. Do I wanna be a IFBB pro , a strong Man, a powerlifter or some Mens Health Front cover page..... Unless you are a freak by nature or got more than average genetics+ willing to take AAS you skip the IFBB part. With a lot of dedication the average Joe can be a decent powerlifter or a medium ranking strongman.
The last category, you know, the slightly beefed up fitness male model is the most realistic goal if you decide to stay natural and doing it for looks rather than strength.
yes, I know still a lot of this fitness models are moderate users anyway and rely on eca and clen to help bring the washboard out. But if you are willing to invest several years and be pretty religious about your training and eating habits than it can be achieved and from that point you can maintain it and be slighty less religious.......
Make your decision and do what it takes.
His brother convinced him to train with him on a 4 days a week basis and within 1 month he already had to buy larger clothes (and we are not talking pot-belly here) . Most people would dismiss this as AAS use, but i KNOW that he is one of those rare freaks by nature.
As a matter a fact after 3 months he decided to cut back on his training volume , as het got a responsible management job in the telecom industry and he "grew too fast" and began to look like a Jay cutler piece of meat, leading his customers to believe that he couldn't possibly be a smart fast acting executive....
He now trains 2 days a week only (upper body / lowerbody day) and still gets much more out of it than most of us would.
But he is one rare exceptions (i also know one super ripped guy and he eats junk food bigtime) and I think that we should rephrase the question to "How big or cut can the average Joe or slightly more talented talented Joe get naturally"?
I certainly think that a nice streamlined beach physique is possible for every average joe if they are willing to put the time and work in. Maybe not freaky big or super ripped, but you can find a balance in between : some size, combined with a decent %BF like say 8-10 percent. and above all, if you consitantly work all body parts and are not one of those that skips legs etc, you most likely develope a SYMMETRICAL physique wich gets you better ratings than that AAS upperbody here with 20" guns walking on sticks.
I have nothing against AAS but you got to set realistic goals for yourself. Do I wanna be a IFBB pro , a strong Man, a powerlifter or some Mens Health Front cover page..... Unless you are a freak by nature or got more than average genetics+ willing to take AAS you skip the IFBB part. With a lot of dedication the average Joe can be a decent powerlifter or a medium ranking strongman.
The last category, you know, the slightly beefed up fitness male model is the most realistic goal if you decide to stay natural and doing it for looks rather than strength.
yes, I know still a lot of this fitness models are moderate users anyway and rely on eca and clen to help bring the washboard out. But if you are willing to invest several years and be pretty religious about your training and eating habits than it can be achieved and from that point you can maintain it and be slighty less religious.......
Make your decision and do what it takes.
