What 1rm % w/ doubled minis?

[latinus_spicticus]

When you guys use doubled minis (one per side) on the bar when DE benching, what kind of weight do you use? I usually go about 205 w/o bands (50% 1rm), I tried double minis w/ 205 and the first 5 sets were REAL fast up and down-- way faster than straight 205 bar weight, but on the sixth set I think I partially tore my pec. It is all black/blue where the tendon inserts near the armpit. I am thinking that I used too much weight or that I am just too fragile for bands? I think I tore the f'n pec for real, I've iced it for 24 hours but its worse so I am going to the doctor today.

 

[Screwball]

Sorry to hear about the pec tear. Make sure you get it looked at and continue to treat it with ice.

I believe the Westside guys are using 40% - 50% of their 1-rep maxes plus bands. I also believe that they are performing fewer speed sets, more in the 5-8 set range. If you are just going to use straight weight then 50% - 60% of your 1 -rep max is probably an effective range. Too many lifters use too much weight on their DE days which can really affect your ME days and the potential for overtraining & injury increses. IMHO.

 

[benchmonster]

I am a 500 ish bencher with a shirt. On speed day I use the following:

135 plus 2 doubled mini's per side

185 plus 1 doubled mini per side

225 plus 50 lbs of chain.

I alternate these every week. Week one I do 6 sets, week 2, I do 8 sets, and week 3 (last night) I do 10 sets. Last night I did my first half of the sets with 225, then threw on 275 for a few sets, and it was way too heavy, bar speed went to shit.

If you did 205 plus 2 doubled mini's PER SIDE, then you were doing way, way too much weight!!! I just re-read your post, and I think you were doing one doubled mini per side for a total of 2 mini's, in which case you were still way too heavy.

I notice when I use bands on speed day, I am forced to use my pecs a lot more than I do for just straight bar weight. That and the fact that I cannot keep my bar speed up with 225 plus any bands, is the reason I drop the weight so dramatically when using bands.

Realize that one pair of truly doubled minis adds around 40 lbs at the chest and 80 or so at lockout. 2 pairs, or 2 doubled mini's per side adds 80 lbs at the chest and 160 at lockout.

My current raw P.R. with 2 doubled mini's is like 225 plus 4 bands. So you can see why I have to drop the bar weight so much when using the bands.

And if you are bruising, go to the doctor. I have had a slight tear in my left pec, which did not require surgery, but if you are fucked up, the quicker someone looks at it, the better chance you have of a full recovery.

B.

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Thanks for the info, guys. I saw the Doc, got x rayed and he said it was probably partially torn judging from the xrays and the swelling/bruising. My ROM is not that badly decreased though, which I think is a good thing. Plenty of ice, rest and ibuprofen (and a few vicoden) will help.

I guess I should be using more like 30-40% with doubled minis. I was using 50. The thing is, the bar was moving so much faster than straight weight, both eccentrically and concentrically, so I thought the weight was right. And you are correct about bands requiring more pec than straight weight, because my left (non-torn) pec is super sore, which hasn't happened in months. I am not going to get surgery, just going to work around it until it heals and listen to my body. I shrugged it off as a sprain or pull until I realized I was unable to do even one pullup without extreme pain.

Thanks again for the advice and support.

 

[benchmonster]

go to elitefts.com and read an article by Dave Tate, and I am sorry I cannot remember the name of the article, but it explains how he re-habbed a badly torn pec. He is back benching mid to upper 5's after tearing both pecs.

Good luck, and glad it was not hurt worse than it is.

B.

 

[IrishPower]

i will post a short summary of what i know about pec tears.

1. pec tears and tendon tears can NOT be seen on an XRAY. The doctor needs to use an MRI to see it. What kind of doctor did you see who gave you an xray? if it was NOT an ortho, go SEE an ortho.

2. pec muscle tears generally cannot be repaired by surgery. I was told that it was because the pec muscle has the consistency of jelly and the stitching would never hold. They are considered self healing. The muscle re-attaches itself, although probably not to the original location.

3. tendon tears can and SHOULD be repaired. There is some question as to how much a doctor will do if the tendon is not completely ripped off the bone. My doc fixed mine anyway. Even with an MRI, he could not tell the extent of the damage until he went in.


You need to be really careful. Yes, your bruising and swelling would indicate at least a pec-tear. But again, you don't know if there was tendon damage. I AGAIN recommend that you see an orthopedic specialist. You can train on a muscle strain/tear. I did it over the years, and I finally paid the price with a complete tendon rupture. I am not sure what more advice to give you.

Going back to doing the bands right away is a BAD idea. Bands put a lot of pressure on the stabilizing muscles. If you have muscle injuries that are NOT healed, you are compromising the integrity of your tendon.

Go figure out what you really have with a real doctor and an MRI. After that, you can make plans for your recovery. I will be glad to tell you how I have progressed over the past 9 months. It has been a slow but steady process. I used the opportunity to strengthen my lower back and core while nursing the area.

Good luck!
/irish

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Thanks again for the support and Irishpower's awesome info.

They gave me some demmerall yesterday, which caused me to go into a deep ass sleep right after I made my last post. They also gave me a couple of prescriptions which I'll be filling today.

I will read all of the Dave Tate/pec tear info on elitefts after work. I was not planning on resuming full force. I know what bad pain is and when to say enough is enough in the gym.

The swelling has stopped it seems, but it is still an ugly sight and the doctor definately told me to have a followup with my gen prac or a specialist. I will probably see my general practitioner and have him refer me, or call around and find a good ortho.