US medical system

[mrplunkey]

You would think so - but the desire to be healthy just isn't there in the US.....for example the Atkins brand has been pulled off a lot of shelves cuz it just wasn't selling......

Oh I definately also agree that the desire to be healthy just isn't there. It's part of our only-fix-what's-broken culture. If you don't have chest pain and can still down those 8 twinkies per day, why stop?

Yet again another reason why we can't open the floodgates of free, premium healthcare to everyone.

 

[Matthew_31]

Very few countries with public healthcare provide all-inclusive free services. However the lack of basic healthcare insurance for many Americans leads to a culture of not visiting the doctor and spiralling costs when things go badly. American life expectancies within certain at risk socioeconomic groups are atrocious. There are many developing nations that overall are doing better.

It does not need to be an all or nothing proposition.

Matt

 

[mrplunkey]

Very few countries with public healthcare provide all-inclusive free services. However the lack of basic healthcare insurance for many Americans leads to a culture of not visiting the doctor and spiralling costs when things go badly. American life expectancies within certain at risk socioeconomic groups are atrocious. There are many developing nations that overall are doing better.

It does not need to be an all or nothing proposition.

Matt

Just mentioning "two tier" here immediately produces public outcry. We've taken the notion that all men are equal under the law and somehow decided we're supposed to be all equal under healthcare as well.

And you are correct that many Americans don't visit the doctor until something goes terribly wrong -- but the vast majority of the proactive ones are also the ones agressively seeking employment that includes a basic health plan.

And again, you are correct that in some segments American life expectancies are atrocious. The problem is that sitting people from these segments down and saying "dude, you're killing yourself" often leads to "This is America god damn it. I'll smoke, drink and eat pringles if I want to."

The answer would be subsidizing personal responsibility toward beneficial health practices but that will never happen IMO.

 

[Lao Tzu]

nordstrom in 3, 2,1

0.

Roughly 1/6th of americans do not have health insurance. Another 1/6 have substandard insurance (high deductible, poor coverage, etc). The other 2/3 are doing pretty well.

You can get emergency care in the US w/o insurance, but chronic care is harder to find. Cost varies alot based on whether you have insurance or not.

 

[Lao Tzu]

And to pile-on yet another issue... Americans are one of the most extreme break-and-fix cultures in the world. We just don't do prevention well at all -- not just in healthcare. It would take at least one, if not two full generations of indoctrination in schools to teach kids about the causal nature of health maintenance and long-term well being.

I'd love to see us start that kind of education, but realize that the marlboro-packing tobacco grower in rural North Carolina is going to show-up at school and ask "why the fuck are you telling MY child how to live????!!!!".

Schools don't teach much of what you really need to know in life. How to run your own mind, how to set goals, how to communicate efficienctly, how to delay gratification, how to be healthy, how to think critically, etc. I don't see them changing on most, but I wouldn't be suprised with the obesity problem if they start being more health conscious, even if it is just health related to obesity.

The thing is, there are endless things a person can do to cut their risk of disease, most are really esoteric too. Flossing your teeth for example cuts your risk of CVD & demetia drastically. Meditating and lowering stress cuts CVD by 40-50%. Something as simple as walking 30 minutes a day is a major boost to health in all areas.

We need more adult education more than child education. Sadly with the obesity epidemic taking up all the medical airtime most people assume fat = unhealthy & thin = healthy and leave it at that, as a result the endless other ways to get and stay healthy aren't getting any publicity. If everyone in the US ate slightly more fruit then diseases like demetia would drop by 70%. But you never hear about it in medical news, it is always obesity related.

 

[mrplunkey]

Schools don't teach much of what you really need to know in life. How to run your own mind, how to set goals, how to communicate efficienctly, how to delay gratification, how to be healthy, how to think critically, etc. I don't see them changing on most, but I wouldn't be suprised with the obesity problem if they start being more health conscious, even if it is just health related to obesity.

The thing is, there are endless things a person can do to cut their risk of disease, most are really esoteric too. Flossing your teeth for example cuts your risk of CVD & demetia drastically.

We need more adult education more than child education. Sadly with the obesity epidemic taking up all the medical airtime most people assume fat = unhealthy & thin = healthy and leave it at that, as a result the endless other ways to get and stay healthy aren't getting any publicity. If everyone in the US had better oral hygiene and ate slightly more fruit then diseases like demetia & CVD would drop by 70%. But you never hear about it in medical news, it is always obesity related.

But aesthetics is a powerful biologial and social motivation, and can drive a lot of other desirable behaviors along with it.

I had salmon tonight b/c I need to do a little work on the old six-pack (seriously). I passed on the beer with my dad too for the same reason. And now, as much as I'd like to see your responses to this thread, I'll have to read them later as I'm going to drive to the Rush (gym) and work-out.

And yeah, my motives are 75% aesthetics and 25% health, but if the goal drives good behaviors then you just gotta roll with it

 

[Lao Tzu]

But aesthetics is a powerful biologial and social motivation, and can drive a lot of other desirable behaviors along with it.

I had salmon tonight b/c I need to do a little work on the old six-pack (seriously). I passed on the beer with my dad too for the same reason. And now, as much as I'd like to see your responses to this thread, I'll have to read them later as I'm going to drive to the Rush (gym) and work-out.

And yeah, my motives are 75% aesthetics and 25% health, but if the goal drives good behaviors then you just gotta roll with it

A real fitness buff would cartwheel to the gym.

The level of healthy eating & exercise necessary to give aesthetic benefits is generally far higher than the level needed to improve health. Rather than just making mild improvements and looking the same but having better health alot of people are doing all or nothing. Plus there are many ways to improve aesthetics via diet & exercise, and many are not healthy. There needs to be more of an understanding of the difference between aesthetics & health but there isn't. Not only that, but people are oblivious to everything else they can do to improve their health other than acts that promote aesthetics.

 

[mrplunkey]

A real fitness buff would cartwheel to the gym.

The level of healthy eating & exercise necessary to give aesthetic benefits is generally far higher than the level needed to improve health. Rather than just making mild improvements and looking the same but having better health alot of people are doing all or nothing. Plus there are many ways to improve aesthetics via diet & exercise, and many are not healthy. There needs to be more of an understanding of the difference between aesthetics & health but there isn't. Not only that, but people are oblivious to everything else they can do to improve their health other than acts that promote aesthetics.

All true, but here's the problem. You and I could take a few months, do tons of legitimate research of peer-reviewed articles and formulate a comprehensive health and well-being plan. We could then pitch it to 1,000 kids in the 12-17 range. I'd guess about 100 of them would even be interested and if we're lucky about 2-3 of them would actually make changes based on our argument.

Or, we could just say "do this diet and you'll either look like Jessica Alba or Brad Pitt from fight club. You'll get all the dates, attention, sex... whatever you're looking for!" I'd bet we'd probably reach at least 400 of the 1,000 kids -- and at least 100 or so would act on it.

It's not a perfect solution, but sometimes you have to go with what delivers the numbers. It becomes a lot easier to do once you accept the fact that the vast, vast, vast majority of Americans are neither rational or logical.

P.S. Damn my abs are gonna need some work. I'll probably throw-in a mild dose of daily creatine too so I can work-out longer and more intensely.

 

[TC2]

ask any mexican. they have no problems getting er care, cancer treatment, kidney transplants, you name it.

r

you're right about that shit, I remember when I broke my hand and was at the emergency room.

I was standing in line to pay thinking thank jebus I have good insurance(actually free for me since I work for the state), I was behind this Mexican couple that had a newborn(obliviously she just gave birth) and when it came time for them to pay they're all like "no speak English,no deniero" while opening his wallet to show the woman that it was empty.

The woman didn't even bat an eye, she just swiveled in her chair grabbed a form and stamped it and off they went with the tax payers footing the bill again.