Trickle-down is a scam, extending the Bush tax cut is wrong:

[redshirt27se]

It was a compromise. The far left is acting like a bunch of bitches cause they didn't get their way. When you hate on bi-partisanship, it's called extremism.

 

[javaguru]

It's interesting his 1970's lectures are relevant today....notice his take on national health care in my last post...

 

[EnderJE]

It's interesting his 1970's lectures are relevant today....notice his take on national health care in my last post...

I'm not sure that either side really appreciates it. Both have some form of government control and manipulation that can skew the results one way or the other.

 

[javaguru]

I'm not sure that either side really appreciates it. Both have some form of government control and manipulation that can skew the results one way or the other.

The level of government control is the important variable. I support regulations that prevent the free market from poisoning people as part of the judicial system but big government not only destroys wealth but individual freedom. Likewise, the welfare state destroys the human spirit through dependence.

 

[mrplunkey]

Henry Morgenthau..FDR's Treasury Secretary and brilliant economist...
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. … And an enormous debt to boot."

Keynes has been weighed, measured and fallen short...
Buying $500.00 hammers and paying someone to dig a hole and fill it in doesn't create "real" economic growth.

At the beginning of our "Great Depression" England took the opposite approach of Roosevelt. The liberals were thrown out and the conservatives implemented austerity measures...unemployment returned to normal levels within two years.

On a side note....People call Bush stupid...FDR was a solid C student in college.

I bet 80% of the American public doesn't understand that concept.

It's about quality of jobs, not quantity of jobs. And you're only going to get quality jobs from rich employers.

 

[Mr. dB]

It was a compromise. The far left is acting like a bunch of bitches cause they didn't get their way. When you hate on bi-partisanship, it's called extremism.

Indeed, this is the kind of compromise that politics is made of.

Agree about extremism. I don't think this is quite a "Read My Lips: No New Taxes" moment though. Those people who dumped on Bush41 were real extremists.

 

[kx250rider]

My question to you is why do you see taxes as "punishment?" Taxes arent meant to be punitive. At the end of the day we need some form of taxation. Although many people look at this from a standpoint of whats "fair," I prefer to look at what is most efficient when it comes to creating a healthy capitalistic society that provides ample opportunity for the vast majority of the citizens.

The Bush tax cuts obviously dont fit the bill in that regard. There is no arguing with the results (as they are right there in black and white) so why should we continue with them?

To repeat a quote of mine above: Not to mention the fact that between 1979 and 2005, the mean after-tax income for the top 1% increased by 176%, compared to an increase of 69% for the top quintile overall, 20% for the fourth quintile, 21% for the middle quintile, 17% for the second quintile and 6% for the bottom quintile.


That doesnt concern you at all?

The punishment for success is that the more you make, the higher your percentage is. That's the punishment (aka butt rape). In other words, a flat tax is what would be fair, as I don't consider taxation itself unfair or punishing at all. A person who figures out how to make a strong income, should be rewarded by a lower tax rate, if anything. That would encourage MORE people to work HARDER; not encourage people to work to a certain point, and then realize they're about to be raped, and back off the efforts.

Here's an example of how this "tax the rich" is backfiring: Let's suppose somebody is in a situation where they run a small business, and are making just below the alternative-minimum tax ceiling (where you're not allowed to take any deductions; medical, or writeoffs of any kind)... I forget what that level is, but say $1 million. So that person right now, will spend all kinds of money on improving the business, hiring more people, and buying new equipment since the cost will offset taxable income. Do you think anyone is going to do that spending and hiring, if they will be out not only their spent money, but also be out $600,000 or so in taxes? NO. They'll spend as little as possible, and be SURE to make just under whatever that cutoff of death taxable income level is. And that can mean trashing products (literally), or just shutting down the business for a few weeks or months to be sure not to earn that extra dollar of death.

If we had a flat tax, THAT would be true fairness and equality.

And next time anyone complains about the cost of gas, just know that there are capped oil wells capable of producing plenty of extra crude, and they're capped because their lessees can't "afford" to sell any more oil that year. And that trickles down too, in a bad way. Those oil fields are all tied up in leaseholds, and the land owners are sitting and waiting for royalties that don't come when the wells are capped, and there goes another snowball of money not moving. I'd write a book about the inside truth of all this, but I'd be murdered.

Charles

 

[kx250rider]

LOL, if we had a flat tax the rate would be a whole hell of a lot higher than 10%. To support the present size of government it would be in the high 20% range. So the rich would get a moderate tax cut and the poor would get a huge tax hike. Yeah, that's "fair".

The point of a progressive tax rate is that it taxes disposable or discretionary income. It takes into account that for some people, virtually all of their income is used to pay for necessities, and for other people there is money to burn. The money-to-burn crowd are still left with plenty to burn.

It's already been proven by members of the Left and the Right, that a 10% flat tax would nearly triple the federal income tax revenue taken in. It would increase the amount paid by the wealthiest (NOT Obama's idea of "wealthiest" who include McDonalds' managers in some states, but those with 7-figure incomes). It would reduce the amount paid by the upper-middle income people who run small and medium businesses. It would put all the accountants out of work, and it would reduce the need for the IRS work force by about 90%, so that's probably the true reason that flat tax isn't on the table.

Charles

 

[-SD-]

It's already been proven by members of the Left and the Right, that a 10% flat tax would nearly triple the federal income tax revenue taken in. It would increase the amount paid by the wealthiest (NOT Obama's idea of "wealthiest" who include McDonalds' managers in some states, but those with 7-figure incomes). It would reduce the amount paid by the upper-middle income people who run small and medium businesses. It would put all the accountants out of work, and it would reduce the need for the IRS work force by about 90%, so that's probably the true reason that flat tax isn't on the table.

Charles

thats a probably a bigger part of it than people realize. Theres an entire industry centered around tax services that so many jobs, public and private, would be lost if the whole nation had a flat tax.

 

[Mr. dB]

Likewise, the welfare state destroys the human spirit through dependence.

Welfare as anything other than a temporary leg-up must die.