Training myths?

[GUNS/Navarone]

AH I see, I thought you said it in a sarcastic way, that it couldn't be done.
I was just saying that I could
Sorry about the mix up. Hope I didn't come across badly as it wasn't meant that way.
Cheers.

 

[sorerotators]

Well, let's say you can 10 reps with 300 pounds on the bench. The last rep is very very slow and you gave it all you had. It's the last one in you. That's concentric failure.

I'd advocate doing 8-9 reps or perhaps even less. Really depends on your volume, effort, frequency, time constraints, etc..

-Zulu

If you never go to failure, or even close to failure, what reason does your muscle have to grow?

 

[ZZuluZ]

"If you never go to failure, or even close to failure, what reason does your muscle have to grow?"

The imposed demand.

You think muscles only grow if you've pushed them to their utter limit?

Try telling that to Olympic Lifters, Powerlifters, etc...

-Zulu

 

[benchmonster]

Regarding the question of what is going to failure. I think Zzulu is so smart sometimes that he uses terms not understood by many on the board. Let me take a stab at a workable definintion of training to failure.

Training to failure is when you keep doing reps with a certain weight on a given exercise till you MISS A REP. That is, when you are going for a set of 10 on the bench, and the 10th rep stops on the way up and comes crashing down on your chest. Or never gets off your chest in the first place.

That is what training to failure is. If you do that all the time, you will screw yourself up.

B.

 

[ZZuluZ]

Seems we're using different terminology.

If you fail at a rep, you're essentially going beyond failure IMHO because then your spotter is helping you with the rest of that repetition.

It should be pointed out that there are several types of failure:

Concentric Failure- Not being able to raise the weight

Isometric Failure- Not being able to hold the weight statically

Eccentric Failure- Not being able to lower the weight under control. In reality eccentric failure cannot be reached unless you tear your muscle apart.


-Zulu

 

[sorerotators]

"If you never go to failure, or even close to failure, what reason does your muscle have to grow?"

The imposed demand.

You think muscles only grow if you've pushed them to their utter limit?

Try telling that to Olympic Lifters, Powerlifters, etc...

-Zulu

I guess i'm missing something. What is the imposed demand?

 

[ZZuluZ]

Imposed demand...the demand place on the body.

The myth that muscles only grow because they HAVE to and that failure is the only way of achieving this is false.

There is plenty of empirical evidence for this; especially what concerns synaptic facilitation. Look at manual laborers, strongmen, powerlifters, olympic lifters, etc..

-Zulu

 

[sorerotators]

Imposed demand...the demand place on the body.

The myth that muscles only grow because they HAVE to and that failure is the only way of achieving this is false.

There is plenty of empirical evidence for this; especially what concerns synaptic facilitation. Look at manual laborers, strongmen, powerlifters, olympic lifters, etc..

-Zulu

You still havn't explained what the imposed demand is.

Using your example. If a person can lift a weight for ten reps (the tenth being failure), you recommend stopping short at 8-9 or even less.

If the muscle doing the lifting is working well within its capacity, what is the imposed demand on the body to increase by hypertrophy?

And i assume we are talking about hypertrophy? Because i see you referring to all weightlifters as examples.

 

[MarshallPenniford]

The growth basically comes from the damage to the muscle. You don't need failure for that to occur.

 

[Phenotype X]

Seems we're using different terminology.

If you fail at a rep, you're essentially going beyond failure IMHO because then your spotter is helping you with the rest of that repetition.

It should be pointed out that there are several types of failure:

Concentric Failure- Not being able to raise the weight

Isometric Failure- Not being able to hold the weight statically

Eccentric Failure- Not being able to lower the weight under control. In reality eccentric failure cannot be reached unless you tear your muscle apart.


-Zulu

Good info ZULU. I never knew the difference between these types of failure. I agree with your logic on this post.