Training as a boxer...

[Legion Kreinak2]

Well, I was asking mainly if you think I should just try to add some size/strength FIRST, and then begin training moreso like a fighter (boxer, moreso).

I mean, I could train as a boxer now I suppose, but wouldn't be able to compete with the bigger guys as well (though I'm descent sized now).

I'm willing to sacrifice most things except friends man. As long as I can have them by my side, and have enough free time to chat with them, it's all good.

All I need is a guideline, a layout, a plan. If that's set and guaranteed to get me where I need to be, I'll follow.

Building some more foundation first sounds better, so I can optimally (and quickly) gain size and strength. I don't understand how I can know my body well enough to not go catabolic... that seems pretty intense.

Then again, as long as I get alot of protein, my muscles should "preserve" themself for the most part, so I believe.

Thanks for the response man. Merry X-mas or whatever yo ya'.

Happy holidays, all!

 

[ronin67]

You are 6' at 15 years old, so you are probably going to grow a little bit more (height anyways). For that height, you are way too light. Your best bet is to go light heavy, cruiser or best, heavy weight. I would work on getting good boxing skills right now. That means finding a good boxing gym. As far as weight training goes, you are still young so you can afford to train a little more that us older guys. Once you hit 18, and can better decide whether to bulk or not, as you will more than likely hit your natural height and weight. Your current training regimen is great for a bodybuilder, but not for a fighter. I would highly recommend that you check out Renegade Training. It is the best way for a fighter to train, boxing or any other discipline. For diet, eat more red meat, but more importantly EAT (real food, not crap which you already seem to understand) then eat some more.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

What's Renegade Training, and where exactly can I read more into it?

 

[slinky]

Legion:

Go here: www.renegadetraining.com

 

[Thaibox]

Renegade Training........

I wrote a pretty harsh opinion against this training system last night, and decided to erase it this morning, as I realized that I'm kind of an asshole when I'm tired, and on percocets. My opinion is the same, but I'll say it more respectfully this time.

Renegade Training appears to be based on basic knowledge showing no "profound" information that is anywhere near worth the ridiculous amounts of money they charge for workout programs. They remind me of a certain author that posts on Elite who hypes himself up, yet has no "breakthrough" information as he may claim. Anyone who charges that much money for simple written information in this sport is wrong.

 

[Thaibox]

Well, I was asking mainly if you think I should just try to add some size/strength FIRST, and then begin training moreso like a fighter (boxer, moreso).

---This is up to you my friend. There's a lot of variables to consider here. What weight class do you want to fight in? Do you want to fight in a class that will be primarily shorter, bigger guys, or maybe go balls out with your size and fight with no weight ceiling? You also need to consider genetics. Do you grow easy? Are you fast naturally? Strong? These will help determine what's best.

I mean, I could train as a boxer now I suppose, but wouldn't be able to compete with the bigger guys as well (though I'm descent sized now).

---You can do a lot of different training that won't sacrifice your size very much. You don't have to be doing brutal cardio sessions right now. Ease into while you grow. Develope speed with your lifts using pauses and such. WORK ON YOUR LEGS. So many fighters neglect this that its silly. If you grow powerful legs, you will have a weapon that not many fighters are willing to build. You can learn how to hit, slip, move, etc without intense cardio right now.

I'm willing to sacrifice most things except friends man. As long as I can have them by my side, and have enough free time to chat with them, it's all good.

---I'm not saying become a hermit and train on a mountain top 12 hours a day. Just don't be partying, drinking, or wasting your necessary recovery time, or training time. It sucks getting hit in the noggin when you're hung over. Go out, have fun, hang with your bros and chicks, but just don't lose sight of your goals.

All I need is a guideline, a layout, a plan. If that's set and guaranteed to get me where I need to be, I'll follow.

---Nothing will gaurantee that you get there. You will do that part. A guideline is just that, a guide. It points, you bust ass to get there. From all the advice you will get, take nothing as gospel. It doesn't matter if Ali comes and teaches you(well, maybe Ali) because you are an individual. You will differ from everyone. Listen to everyone and build your own plan.

Building some more foundation first sounds better, so I can optimally (and quickly) gain size and strength. I don't understand how I can know my body well enough to not go catabolic... that seems pretty intense.

---If you want to build a solid foundation first, then find a good lifting coach. Its the best way to go. Build your machine. Take 2 fighters of equal skill and experience and make one 5% stronger. He will begin to win. Make him 10% stronger and he will dominate. Make him 20% stronger and its no longer a competition. Blah, blah, anyway, yes...building your foundation first is a good way to start. But, build it for the purpose of fighting. Build it to be strong, quick and powerful. Don't ever look at your abs or biceps, looks don't mean a damn thing. Train for function, not aesthetics.

Then again, as long as I get alot of protein, my muscles should "preserve" themself for the most part, so I believe.

---It will take many things. Diet is foremost. The ways you train will make a huge difference.

Give me a couple days and I'll come up with a cool training plan that you may like to try. Like I said, its just my opinion, but you may find somehting useful in it. Sorry if this post didn't make good sense. I'm really tired. Gonna go fall down now.

 

[slinky]

Then I guess that all of the free information out there already on Renegade Training provided by Coach Davies hasn't helped me one bit. Hmmmm, utterly fascinating.

While I haven't spent a dime on Renegade Training books, programs, but have just read the information on various other sites that Davies contributes for, I have seen and felt results.

I came into boxing training better conditioned than many of the other boxers who had been training as part of the team alot longer than me. And I'm much older than them as well. While I firmly believe in "sports specificity" training - I know that my improved conditioning is due to many of the training protocols of RT. The fact is: I've done and am performing RT. I'm living proof that RT works. So, my word isn't opinion. It's testimony based on my personal experience.

I wouldn't lump RT into the bottom leagues of such crap as bowflex machines. I KNOW bowflex is crap.

I understand that's your opinion. I respect that. Just keep in mind that Coach Davies is always just a email away from answering ANY questions. I know this from personal experience as well.

Legion needs a plan? A workout routine outlined for boxing? Why not go to a boxing gym? Does he not live near one? Go to a boxing gym, get a trainer there. My gym is only 10-bucks a month. I get personalized training, heavy bags, two rings for training, etc. Monday through Thursdays. He's 15? Just get his ass into a boxing gym and start learning to box there.

 

[Thaibox]

Slinky, I edited my rant about RT. I respect your opinion and am glad that their system has helped you. I hope you see what I was trying to say about them and those of their type.

Legion needs a plan? A workout routine outlined for boxing? Why not go to a boxing gym?

Because the average boxer isn't aware of what power really is. This is where LK2 will have a huge advantage when he begins. To understand this, you have to seperate the body and the skills. If you are familiar with Ninjutsu, you will know that they have an entire art dedicated to the training of the body for combat called Taijutsu. They teach this first and foremost.

Look at it like racecars. The average boxer begins to learn how to race with a 4 or 6 cylinder engine and stock suspension. In a year from then, your car is a littel faster, a little better at handling. While you're wasting your time on the track with that little car, I'm in my garage working on my 800hp big block, and I'll start working on my driving skills after my car is more or less ready for it. Since LK is 15 he's got plenty of time to slap some nitrous and a supercharger on his car before he begins.

He clearly feels that he's not as big as he'd like to be. He's not small, but he's(in my opinion) not big enough to enter the ring at the weight class he would be in because of his height. Strength and power is something that way too many fighters and trainers dismiss as unecessary, believing that skill and experience are all you need. Well, these people have a right to their opinion, but they don't have the right to detract from the potential of a young impressionable fighter by neglecting one of the most powerful weapons he can have in his arsenal.

Anyway, enough blabbering. In my opinion, truly training your body for power and strength is beyond the capability of most boxing gyms I've ever seen. So, one option is to familiarize yourself with this type of training prior to starting someone else's training routine.

Who would you rather have at your back? A 180 lb boxer with three years of traditional training.....or a guy with b fold's size/power/strength with 1 year experience.

He has time to build a dangerous foundation and still incrporate some minor training before he really begins.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Thai, thank you so much for all the shit you've been helping me with man. I'm looking forward to seeing the training plan you were gonna put together for me.

 

[Thaibox]

Thats what the board is for bro. Anyway, I'm just hanging around waiting for back surgery, so I'm not doing anything. Just remember that whatever I come up with is simply my opinion on what I think would work well. I'll post it on the training board as well and see what the guys have to say about it.

If you could, post the following for me:

- Max numbers on basic lifts
- What your strengths are(are you more quick than strong?, etc)
- If you got into a fight, what would be the first thing you would do? (Left jab, right cross, kick, etc.)
- Do you have long legs or torso?
- Any injuries?
- What body parts dominate? Strong shoulders, legs. etc
- any other info that may be relevant


You're 15, 6' 165 and I assume pretty lean. Shit, when I was 17 I was 6'1" 140. Now I'm 27, 6'2" 265. I was lifting for years, but I really didn't figure it all out and become hardcore about it until maybe 4 years ago. I overtrained all the time and was doing hours of cardio a day. Going from the gym, to the dojo, to the track, to another dojo(then partied a lot).

I say this to point out that if you do things correctly now(8 years before I did), imagine where you'll be when you're my age. Damn, makes me jealous.