i actually do listen i came in here thinking i knew it all srfl13 knows i did the newbie thing and askd about the dbol only, nd after listing i didnt do it kuz its stupid. i am listening and taing in all your guys knowledge, kuz my friend did anavar only for 6 weeks said it was very good, but after that did the test, so.... its just var is very expensive very very very expensive. so im tryin 2 find out what i can do oral wise, im asking questions not tryin 2 be arrogant or ignorant at all. i read some post about the tbols but there arent enuff, maybe a tbol/winny cycle? i dont know, kuz every one mentions the joint pain andd it has to be severe enuff to have you guys mention it, ive been working out non stop since i came in, strickt diet and saing enuff money....so bAsically i have to make a desicion