Strength/nosize

[leatherface]

i don't know any TOP boxing trainers, Manny Stewart,Ronni Sheilds,Tommy Brooks, Buddy McGirt, Floyd Mayweather SR. that have their fighter train with such heavy weight, it puts too muc stress on the CNS.

what is the big deal if it does put too much stress on the CNS? Or atleast if you have no fights coming up soon. Just curious

 

[epimetheus]

epmi- i guess you didn't read
i said "MAX" as in training with 1-3reps.

i don't know any TOP boxing trainers, Manny Stewart,Ronni Sheilds,Tommy Brooks, Buddy McGirt, Floyd Mayweather sr., Freddie Roach, that have their fighters train with such heavy weight, it puts too muc stress on the CNS. the last thing you want is a overtrained fighter on fight night.

i didn't read any of those articles because i don't need too.

if DR. SQUAT says squatting 500lbs will make you a better boxer, the people who are getting paid $$$$millions aren't listening either.

Well obviously you don't train max close to a fight. There is a thing called cycling, just like in bodybuilding.


You obviously aren't interested in learning, nor respectable debate, as you ignore the links I posted. Oh, you don't "need" to, thats right, you know more than them.

I don't know how those people you listed train. I would imagine they train for strength, just as most top level athletes do. Strength training for combat sports is vital. Training with low weights for high reps just makes you sore, making it difficult to train for your sport.

Nice straw man by the way. Obviously squatting 500lbs isn't going to have much of a carry over in BOXING, I never said it did, nor does Dr. Squat. Being able to do bodyweight olympic lifts or more, have a heavy overhead press and a decent bench press will have lots of carry over. Now for a kickboxer it might be a different story, but you cleverly avoided that combat sport.

Wanna try posting a link or two? You see, my arguments alone have zero crediblity- that is why I post links. The links I post to are written by trainers that have LOTS of credibility. You have ZERO credibility as well, unless you want to post some credentials. If you can't be "bothered" to do so, stay out of the debate. If you cant put out, stay out.

 

[R CRUSHER]

there's a difference between strength training and training for "MAX STRENGTH"

my experience comes from "real world" not what i've read on the internet web page.

just go to your local boxing/kick boxing gym.....and tell me what you see? you won't see guys lifting like Powerlifters for MAX strength.

you obviously don't know much about boxing...

trainer MANNY STEWART - LENNOX LEWIS

trainer RONNIE SHIELDS - MIKE TYSON,VERNON FORREST,BERNARD HOPKINS WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO

trainer BUDDY MCGIRT - ATURO GATTI,JAMMEL MCCLINE

trainer FLOYLD MAYWEATHER SR. - OSCAR DE LA HOYA, FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR.


i know this is not a boxing forum but i do know boxing.

there maybe 1 or 2 people on the face of the planet that can hit as hard as Mike Tyson.......but there are 1000's
of guys out there that are stronger at bench,squat,deads,etc......

 

[leatherface]

Ah, didn't want to start a flame riot here! Just wanted some useful info (which i have got a good bit of by the way) thanks

 

[epimetheus]

I know how boxers train. I also know how many martial artists train. Like little sissies afraid that they will get huge and slow down by lifting heavy weights.

Sorry pal, knowing a couple boxers trainers names doesn't prove jack shit. Nor does saying go to a boxing gym and see how they train. I have seen how they train, and it is no wonder that they are not pros. Provide some links or don't bother posting. I don't know too many people that trust something they see on a message board by some guy that doesn't even bother to read an article or two. By respected names no less. They are not "Just names on the internet" but cutting edge strength trainers (in the case of Pavel and Staley).

So tell me R- What is the difference between strength training and training for max strength? Does anybody train for mid strength? Sounds pretty gay to me.

Dumb boxer- I am doing some strength training, some weights, plyometrics, ballistic training, ya know, but not for max strength. I know that getting stronger and recruiting more muscle fibers can help with my explosiveness and help me achieve a bigger punch and that strength really helps in the ring, but that magical point where it reaches max strength just doesn't help anymore and hinders me. I try to avoid that magical point that R Crusher on the interenet told me about. Screw that max strength.

It wouldn't surprise me that some of the top boxing trainers that have been at it for years don't train with heavy weights. They probably proscribe to that low weights high reps bullshit. Strength doesn't carry over, according to them, but being able to curl a dumbell 100 times in one set supposedly does.

Yeah, you stick to your "real world" experience then. I am sure I will see your name in lights sometime, what with your "cutting edge" training methods. Cutting edge back in the 50's perhaps.
However an internet isn't real world, and frankly you can be full of shit. Some fat little loser with glasses and a drippy nose that is an "expert" on whatever. Sorry doesn't cut it. I still don't see links or credentials. On the internet, if you have a claim, you provide citations to support your argument. A detailed refutation, explaining why it is so, several links to experts in the field explaining why it is so, and perhaps a few other acessory links to back up their claim as well. Like some physiology. Is that real world enough for you?
Well, in the real world I could look at you, see you fight, or your sucess in training, and gauge how much you know what you are talking about and what kind of sucess you have had with your training methods. On the internet I cannot do that, I go on your argument and what kind of backing your argument has. Which is to say- flashing a few names with the claim that they don't train their boxers with heavy weights. Which I don't believe with just your "word" backing the statement. And you still refuse to post links.

http://www.ringside.com/archives/strength_and_conditioning/weighttraining.htm

 

[spatts]

I, personally, wouldn't train for 1 rep maxlifts in an agility sport. Just in the short time I've been powerlifting, I can see that if I don't spend a dedicated amount of time making sure I work in multiple planes, it is VERY EASY to become super strong in one movement and actually WEAKER in others. You establish strength within a finite recruitment pattern, and anything outside that pattern become more risky. Of course, this is why we train FOR chaos recovery through multi-plane movements, but not every "1 rep max" athlete does that.

B fold is trained in martial arts, and I could see where his "mid range strength" of being "strong," at not just 1 but 15-20 of something, would be far more useful for strongman, and any endurance/speed/strength sport than straight powerlifting might be.

 

[epimetheus]

I, personally, wouldn't train for 1 rep maxlifts in an agility sport. Just in the short time I've been powerlifting, I can see that if I don't spend a dedicated amount of time making sure I work in multiple planes, it is VERY EASY to become super strong in one movement and actually WEAKER in others. You establish strength within a finite recruitment pattern, and anything outside that pattern become more risky. Of course, this is why we train FOR chaos recovery through multi-plane movements, but not every "1 rep max" athlete does that.

B fold is trained in martial arts, and I could see where his "mid range strength" of being "strong," at not just 1 but 15-20 of something, would be far more useful for strongman, and any endurance/speed/strength sport than straight powerlifting might be.

You wouldn't train that way at all? Ever?

I'm not excluding the middle here, I am not advocating or saying somebody in a combat sport should train exclusively in the 1 rep or 3 rep range. I believe in a rounded training routine. (periodized) Some strength training like WSB, some endurance type training (though limited to avoid size gains), even some strongman training would be great. Mix things up a bit with some plyometric/ballistic types of training mixxed in with lots and lots of cardio and specific sport training. (hitting bags, shadow boxing, hand pads, etc in the case of boxing)

If I seem to be so one dimensional that I seem to be suggesting that is all a fighter needs is to lift as heavy as possible at all times and that is all he/she needs, then I appologize for seeming that way. But please, give me some credit, I am nowhere near that stupid.

However, no matter what the naysayers proclaim, the stronger fighter will win hands down, when all else is equal.

 

[R CRUSHER]

sheesh......you have know idea how often this topic comes up.

there's always a new novice boxer/kick boxer who thinks if his 1 rep "MAX" bench/squats go up and hits the weight room HARD! he'll be a HARDER HITTER & KICKER. it just doesn't hold true. it's not like it hasn't been tried 100's of time before.

post links? while there's a plethora if information about BB & PL in the internet, there's next to zilch on the sweet science of pugilism on the internet. if you want to learn to box don't expect to find shit on "how to"
on a web page. we lifters can take good info from here and use it in the weightroom, but a novice boxer isn't so lucky.

there's little crossover from Max strength due to weightclasses. there's 7-8 lbs. between weightclasses. you want to stay in your natural (not bulked) class. a "natural" 165lb Super middleweight will always be stronger (not weightroom strong) than a "bulked" Jr. Middle who put on 10lbs to move up in class. this is what i mean by all the "Max" strength and mucsle gain just doesn't cross over that well.

Roy Jones JR put on 20lbs.(muscle)
and kicked Ruiz asses... but this an extreme exception to the rule.

 

[muscledog95]

I think weight room strength does carry over in combat style sports. I have a good amount of strength do to the weight room. During judo, I can hang with guys that are naturally heavier then i am. Now if I didn't lift weights, I can guarantee that I would get destroyed quickly. Thats real world for ya

 

[R CRUSHER]

JUDO is not BOXING/KICK BOXING!

boxing is the art of striking.

judo you can the grab,throw & hold! it's closer to wrestling & grappling and no weight classes

IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ANIMAL