Stop Recommending Testosterone To Newbies!

[J. Adams]

One of the safest cycles for beginners is a simple 250-500mg test/week cycle. You can easily control the sides with an AI, and it will make you feel great (Also give you fairly decent KEEPABLE gains). A test only cycle is also quite cheap. Even when adding an AI you really get good bang for your buck. Not so with Primo. You need about 400mg/week of Primo for any real noticeable gains, and that will most definatley hurt your wallet. (Primo amps will run you $15-20/amp, and thats assuming they are not fakes. Primo as has been explained to you is one of the most faked AAS out there)

It's irrational to suggest that Primo is better than test for a beginner due to the aforementioned points.

 

[Cardinal Slin]

I may have missed it but I do not believe you answer this question.

Nelson, have you any studies that claim that steroid x shuts down HPTA more than steroid y?

Alternatively some studies that show raising natural test levels is easier if using deca than test?

Thanks

 

[EPROM]

I am a "Noob" who potentially considers Test as a first cycle. ...I guess I don't understand this debate?

If test WILL WORK as a good first cycle, then why shouldn't it be suggested? As far as I understand, ALL of these AAS/Prohormone/Designer add-ons are potentially dangerous if improperly administered. If one is less "dangerous" or easier to use than another, then say so ...but that doesn't mean a more sophisticated Noob wouldn't rather take the more difficult (or dangerous) route. As long as the info is available, then let the Noob make the call.

The WORST thing would be to suppress the information and have some poor Noob operating on outdated or misguided information.

MY question:

I have read up on these legal-to-purchase designer solutions (i.e., Monsterdrol, Havoc, Cyclotren, etc.). Why isn't there more recommendations for a Noob to go down this road as a first cycle as opposed to diving right into syringes, grapefruit-sized prostates and visits from your friendly neighborhood customs agents?

Wouldn't designer gear be a good suggestion for a well choreographed street-legal first cycle? If the Noob gets good results, then maybe they can move on up to the next levels.

Birdman

 

[Cardinal Slin]

Yes. I know this is an unpopular stance but I maintain that a test only cycle is the WORST thing someone can do for a first cycle.

Now that I have some time, I will reply to this post.

Test, the WORST someone can do for a first cycle?
Was it the cheat day yesterday and did you take more than food?

The reason is that test is what our body makes. It doesn't ake Primo or tren or deca. Give it test and it;'ll make less.

So if we give our body deca, it continues pumping out test and we do not need to do any PCT because that's exactly what 'your' quote above implies.

And wouldn't it be better to give your body something it knows/is used to and makes rather than putting something inside that no one will know the exact reaction to?

People thinkother compounds are more suppressive. NOTHING is more suppressive than test! There are , however, things that will kill libido.

Not saying that this is not true, but saying I do not believe it. Then again maybe you have studies and studies to back it up, or was it just a rant without sufficient/any evidence other than belief?

Tren and Deca raise prolactin and progesterone. That's the killer. They don't shut down the HPTA more than test.

Perhaps not, but who said they don't shut down it as equally as test - cause I haven't seen any any any studies yet, but maybe you can post up?

And even dumber is when people suggest using test along with these compounds as some sort of responsible remedy. IT"S JUST ANOTHER SUPPRESSIVE COMPOUND!!! It will mask the problems but it still supresses.

What compounds ai's or other anabolic/androgenics? AI's of course people use them, supression/prevention of some estrogen, not all to prevent too much water retention, gyno, high bp etc.

Start slow.

Finally we agree -

Use Primo or var or a little dbol. You can always add more and more test as you go along.

What aas hormone is more readily available in your body than anything else?

Testosterone.

God did not create all things equal and he sure as hell did not with TEST! It WILL BE long lived.

Good post Sir but definitely not one of your best.

 

[J. Adams]

I am a "Noob" who potentially considers Test as a first cycle. ...I guess I don't understand this debate?

If test WILL WORK as a good first cycle, then why shouldn't it be suggested? As far as I understand, ALL of these AAS/Prohormone/Designer add-ons are potentially dangerous if improperly administered. If one is less "dangerous" or easier to use than another, then say so ...but that doesn't mean a more sophisticated Noob wouldn't rather take the more difficult (or dangerous) route. As long as the info is available, then let the Noob make the call.

The WORST thing would be to suppress the information and have some poor Noob operating on outdated or misguided information.

MY question:

I have read up on these legal-to-purchase designer solutions (i.e., Monsterdrol, Havoc, Cyclotren, etc.). Why isn't there more recommendations for a Noob to go down this road as a first cycle as opposed to diving right into syringes, grapefruit-sized prostates and visits from your friendly neighborhood customs agents?

Wouldn't designer gear be a good suggestion for a well choreographed street-legal first cycle? If the Noob gets good results, then maybe they can move on up to the next levels.

Birdman

The 19-nortestosterone variants (Deca, Tren) will shut your down for far longer than testosterone.

The easiest cycle to do by far is a simple dbol/test cycle. You honestly don't need that much AAS to get decent results.(20mg Dbol/day with 250mg test/week will work quite well. (Thats only 390mg/week total of AAS)

With that test/dball (Dball is used only for the first 4-5 weeks) cycle you can easily avouid side effects with an AI.

A novice AAS user should never jump up to something like Primo right away.

 

[Cardinal Slin]

C'mon lads, you all must know that there are very few studies about steroids in healthy men, let alone on specific things such as this.

I find this asking for studies quite odd.

75% of the time if someone posts a study, then it is criticised saying it is on rats or the doses were wrong and then people say experience counts for more.

Well, that is what we have here, experience.

To be honest, I think it is great that Nelson is challenging the bodybuilding word of mouth myths that are propagated on the internet.


BTW, Dave Palumbo also recommends primo and or var for a first cycle, no test.

Tat, if Nelson comes out and says Test supresses natural test more than any other steroid - with no disrespect, I would not take his word for it. I would like to know where this information comes from.

I cannot say the world is not round, it is the shape of a rugby ball without giving any proof to that. It goes against common belief.

While it may be good to be controversial, people cannot just pull figures and numbers out of thin air, there needs to be some substance behind them.

I am just wanting to see that substance.

 

[Bastow86]

I just started my first cycle with 200mg of test and injecting twice a week, three days apart. Now you are saying i wasted my money? I weigh in at 175lbs when i finish my cycle, i will give you my gains and before/after pics. I will re-post with my "opinon."

 

[Tatyana]

I just started my first cycle with 200mg of test and injecting twice a week, three days apart. Now you are saying i wasted my money? I weigh in at 175lbs when i finish my cycle, i will give you my gains and before/after pics. I will re-post with my "opinon."

The thread is about which steroid will suppress your HPTA the most hun.


Test works, that is not the issue here.

 

[the_alcatraz]

I just started my first cycle with 200mg of test and injecting twice a week, three days apart. Now you are saying i wasted my money? I weigh in at 175lbs when i finish my cycle, i will give you my gains and before/after pics. I will re-post with my "opinon."

what kind of test are you on, test e or test cyp?

 

[bsdgeek]

I think everyone here is missing the point. He's talking about suppression and trying to say on a safe side- if there really is one- that there are other alternatives that don't shut you down. He's basically trying to challenge us to open our minds and look into other alternatives to spare our HPTA.

Now, having said that- on the dbol issue- one question above was how long could you run it- well, on here I have seen recommendations that say not to exceed 8 weeks, but IMHO I'd never go longer than 6 weeks, and personally for me, not more than 4, just as I have bloodwork to show how bad the stuff is on the liver, and honestly, it'll be a long time before I hit the ole dbol again. That shit is just poison, IMO. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the shit out of some dbol, and if you could stay on it year round, I'd be there. But after the last two bloodwork panels and my internal medicine/hrt doc told me what it was doing to me, fuck that. Keep in mind that this is how I feel, I have kids and am almost 40, so I tend to err on the safe side.

Now, on to Primo and Var. Primo may not shut you down, but it's expensive as hell. Var will shut you down if you take enough to get anything out of it. And on winny, almost the same as dbol, it's really hard on you and IMO isn't as nearly safe as test. So, not disagreeing with you Nelson, as you know I have much respect, but safety becomes an issue with this as well. And low to moderate dose test will not affect your lipid panels, as bad, nor will it affect your liver. So, although it may shut you down, it seems safer due to the fact it doesn't hit the liver, and at low to moderate doses it doesn't affect the rest of you, and has less sides.

So, I ask this question, is safety more important? (In relation to the rest of your bodily functions), or is suppression? I know both are, but just trying to guide a little discussion, and I know you have a wealth of knowledge and experience. I also know that this started as an 'anti-suppression' thread, and have read all posts, but just for discussion, I think the comeback to your original post should have taken into account the other areas of the body that get affected by other compounds and why the risks of suppression outweigh the others. This thread has gotten to be an implied 'don't use test' thread, which is clearly not what you were saying.