havoc
Shaolin Ninja
None (from what I have read on this board, from what I have seen with my own eyes with respect to friends and such, and then to use pro bbuilders as an example as well) give permanent results. People get on, get what they want, then lose it, sounds like a waste. I have read the same on here. Also, take Dorian Yates for example, the man at the present time looks like complete shit. Please keep in mind that my standards may be different than yours as well. I have always contemplated using but as of yesterday decided that it will never occur. Seems pointless, unless and I emphasize unless here, unless you are attempting to compete at a National level with intent on turning pro. Or maybe, you personally just like the feeling, the strength, the size, etc. Being blessed by the Most High, and having incorporated a proper diet, training and having this game down to a science for me has already given me the strength, size, shape, density and muscle maturity that many are aspiring to achieve. That is one reason why I ask this I guess because I cannot relate. Gentleman, what are your thoughts? Are they pointless when all is said and done, to an extent? Be honest. peace