Question for VET BB'ers NOT powerlifters....

[drveejay11]

Regarding training:

How many SETS are you finding most success doing per body Part???

It seems like I FINALLY realized that I have been SLIGHTLY OVER-TRAINING.

I have made the following changes and I feel pretty GOOD about them:

Large Body Parts: I NOW do 10 sets of 5-10 reps (this does NOT include LIGHT1-2 warm-up sets)

Smaller Body Parts: I NOW do 7 sets of 5-10 reps (this does NOT include LIGHT1-2 warm-up sets)

Comments welcome!!!

Thanks

PS: I would LOVE to pick up a great manual or book on this matter......any suggestions on this matter?

I'm 5'11
210
10%
~30 years old

My goals are probably DIFF than MOST of you!!!
215-220
8%

This is WHY I am really not interested in powerlifting routines! My goals have always been to have the hardest physique possible.

Never has been "how strong I can get". THIS means NOTHING to me!

 

[JOKER47]

My goals are towards powerlifting, but from what I have been reading here on the boards, and from what you have stated as your problem/question, you might want to look into DC's program.

There is a link at the top of the page, and lots of guys in here have been doing it. They should all be able to provide feedback. Both the high points and the low points. I believe DC's target "audience" is primarily bodybuilders.


.02,
Joker

 

[Scotsman]

Before I switched over to powerlifting I did the BB thing for about five years. I found that doing like 10-12 sets in an entire workout did great things for me. I still do about the same now just use different poundages and rep structures. Also those are working sets I don't count warm-ups as part of sets.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[IronLion]

Regarding training:

I'm 5'11
210
10%
~30 years old

My goals are probably DIFF than MOST of you!!!
215-220
8%

This is WHY I am really not interested in powerlifting routines! My goals have always been to have the hardest physique possible.

Never has been "how strong I can get". THIS means NOTHING to me!

Someone who knows their shit made an interesting point to me. When you look at a cross section of muscle fiber from an elite powerlifter and an elite bb the powerlifter will have much denser aka harder muscles. The bodybuilder spendes years looking for "muscle maturity" when it doesn't take that long to develop if you are training strength. You are 30 and not far away from your goals but with all aas use aside will you keep what you havve when you get there. Not if the strength base is not there to support the size you have built. Why do you think bb crash off cycle so much harder than pler's. I am not trying to sell you on powerlifting at all, I just want you to look at the problem from a different angle. Size without the strength to justify it will diminish in the absence of aas.

 

[Debaser]

Never has been "how strong I can get". THIS means NOTHING to me!

It should mean a lot more to you than you think. Progressively increasing weight is what truly builds muscle. Whether you look at it in the DC viewpoint (strength gains) or the HST view (progressive loading), the conclusion is the same.

I believe you're still using too much volume. Consider this: If it's been proven, both scientifically and in the real world, that you can profit just as much from 1-3 sets as you can from 5+ sets, then why should you do the latter? If you limit your sets to 1 or 2 per bodypart then you will recover faster, and thus be able to train more frequently. And training more frequently allows you to build muscle at a much faster rate (i.e. you're gaining 2-3 times a week as opposed to once a week).

 

[guldukat]

Regarding training:

How many SETS are you finding most success doing per body Part???

It depends on how you define set, I suppose. I do DC. Generally that entails one really long set: a primary effort to failure, usually 8-12 reps; 15 deep breaths, then more reps to failure; 15 more breaths, then a final balls-out effort and sometimes a static contraction at the very end.

It works real well for me.

It seems like I FINALLY realized that I have been SLIGHTLY OVER-TRAINING.

I have made the following changes and I feel pretty GOOD about them:

Large Body Parts: I NOW do 10 sets of 5-10 reps (this does NOT include LIGHT1-2 warm-up sets)

Smaller Body Parts: I NOW do 7 sets of 5-10 reps (this does NOT include LIGHT1-2 warm-up sets)

Comments welcome!!!

Thanks

That does seem somewhat extraneous, as Debaser said, but if it's working, have at it!

If I had my druthers, I'd like to see you reduce that to something more like 8 sets total for the big bodyparts, and maybe 4-5 for the smaller ones.

When I wasn't doing DC, I got my best arm growth by doing supersets. A biceps/triceps routine might look something like this:

Biceps:
1--Barbell Curl or Incline DB Curl--8-10 reps to failure, run to
2--Supinated grip pulldown to the top of the forehead, 6-10 reps to failure.

Triceps:
1--Triceps Pushdown or Skullcrushers, 8-10 reps/failure, run to
2--Parallel dip, 6-10 reps/failure.

The pump from that is ungodly, and I saw some nice strength increases. On rare occassions I would do two supersets of each, sometimes switching the first exercise in the sequence. That'd leave you with 4 sets total for biceps or triceps, 8 total. A pump of at least .75" is to be expected.

PS: I would LOVE to pick up a great manual or book on this matter......any suggestions on this matter?

I'm 5'11
210
10%
~30 years old

My goals are probably DIFF than MOST of you!!!
215-220
8%

This is WHY I am really not interested in powerlifting routines! My goals have always been to have the hardest physique possible.

Never has been "how strong I can get". THIS means NOTHING to me!

Well, it probably should...you don't necessarily have to powerlift, per se, but it's not a bad way to go.

Ask yourself a question: which bodybuilders are the very biggest (and therefore, have the easiest time getting hard...more muscle means a lower relative bodyfat percentage, and an easier time cutting up too)?

Just off the top of my head, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, Trevor Smith, Jeep Swenson, Ian Harrison, Mike Francois and Franco Columbu are or were all very thick, massive guys, all with the potential to get extremely hard, Dorian in particular. They all worked really hard to move progressively monstrous weights, with Dorian doing strict inclines with 425, Ronnie knocking out 12 reps with 315 on seated presses, Francois and Coleman deadlifting over 800 lbs., squatting over 700, and so on.

Would they be that big if they were content military pressing 225, deadlifting 495, etc., for years on end? No. Less muscle = less potential hardness.

You DO want to get crazy strong. It'll help you immensely in your goals.

 

[drveejay11]

DAMN bro's........I've been posting here for a LONG LONG time 90% at the Anabolic Forum and 10% at the Diet Forum, NEVR here though.

I have never gotten such GENUINELY helpful detailed answers this fast.

Thank you for the suggestions........I will look further into this for sure!

Thanks again.......

 

[spatts]

I put on 10 pounds LBM in one year training like a BBer (the previous 13 years were sports specific lifting regimens), and 20 pounds in one year training for both (size AND strength). The first year, the year I gained only 10 pounds, I did a cycle of AAS. The second year was largely clean (tried a couple cycles but ended after a couple weeks due to blood pressure/fakes). Any bodybuilder who has neglected strength can not claim to have approached his/her genetic potential.

Like other posters, I'm not encouraging you to try a powerlifting split. I am encouraging you to do something very well rounded that's going to hit the most variety of fiber types to promote the best possible growth...and of course, recovery.

Want it all.

 

[SofaGeorge]

I train between 7-12 sets for major body parts and 7-9 for minor body parts.

We used to have a thing called the "rule of 9" which meant you couldn't go wring training any body part for 9 sets.

There was a marvelous study published back in the '80s that looked at gains over a 2 year period... and numbers of sets. They had four groups of lifters.

The first group lifted 1 set of three different exercises for one body part.

The second group lifted 2 sets of three different exercises for one body part.

The third group lifted 3 sets of three different exercises for one body part.

The fourth group lifted 4 sets of three different exercises for one body part.

What they found was that the 1st group got 94% of the gains. The 2nd group that did 2 sets got 98% of the gains. The 3rd group that did 3 sets got 100% of the gains. The 4th group got no additional gains over the 3rd group.

What I always found most significant about this study was how much benefit the 1st group got. This study came out at a time when DC training would have been thought of as idiotic. It would have been very intersting if they could redo the study to include absolute failure in sets.

 

[needsize]

I've always trained for both size and strength, and have felt that doing it that way has really helped my physique get where it is now. The sticky at the top of the page details the different training approaches that are advocated in this forum