Problems Pulling off the Floor

[AnimalMass1]

I suck ass off the floor on my deadlifting. Obviously, I have a lower back issue. I can pull just over 500 from the floor, but can pull about the same weight with doubled bands on the bar, or if doing pin pulls, I can pull well over 600.

The weakness really became a problem 7 weeks ago, when I slipped a disc in my back. Luckily it was a partial slip, and through some very careful recovery, lots of rest, and high rep reverse hypers - I got the disc to slide back into place.

So I need to figure out how to really hit my lower back so this is no longer a weakness. The last thing I want is to fully herniate a disc.

So here are my ideas:

1. When pulling, I know I should (and have been) pulling off of a 2-3" box. (or workup to 75%-80% and then do singles, adding mats until the bar is basically on my toes.)

2. I also haven't been pulling off a platform with bands, and although it really helps the deadlift lockout, it makes sense that it would teach me to be overly explosive

3. I need to learn to not use a belt at all for any pulling or havey squats.

4. Posterior Chain work: I haven;t had my reverse hyper very long - so I will really bump up the volume of that, as well as ab work. The combo should put serious pounds on both my squat and dead.

5. However, it seems I should also really be hitting the bent over goodmornings (both suspended and regular), and I should probably keep them fairly low, and fairly strict so as to work my lower back more so than my hamstrings. Also, alot of work with the safety squat bar seems to be in order - I hate that damn thing and the way it throws me forward - but it seems like it would really help my weakness.

So those are my ideas.

Here are my big questions...

1. Is there any reason I should also be pulling sumo in training, as Sumo pulling has always been difficult, and I know alot of guys train the method they are weakest at (sumo for me) to bring up the method they use in a meet? (conventional for me)

2. Does it look like I'm on the right track? and any more imput is reallly appreciated.

Thanks!

AnimalMass

 

[spatts]

HM...I'm torn here. If your lower back is fubar you might be better off learning to pull sumo. If you absolutely CANNOT get comforatble sumo, then drop it from training and focus on bent over chain suspended GMs instead. My ever so humble, personal opinion is that the floor is a WHOLE lot about speed.

 

[AnimalMass1]

Well,

I wasn't really asking if I should switch to sumo. I was just asking if training sumo would help my conventional deadlift.

I'm too dang tall with long lank arms to ever actually pull sumo in a meet. I'm entirely buit to pull conventional, and pull 100+ pounds more that way.

So in saying that, will pulling sumo help me at all with my conventional pulls?

And the back ins't really "fubar" anymore. It's just weak, and needs to be strengthened.

AnimalMass

 

[spatts]

I think having long arms makes you better for the deadift no matter how you pull. My arms are very long too, and I pull sumo. The only difference, in my experience, has been lower back work vs hip work. Sumo is more like a front squat, to me. With my "long lank arms" the sumo range of motion, due to the wider stance, decreases my pull by almost a foot.

Of course, I agree, the lower back can never be strong enough. I pull both ways in training, and pull just a tad more sumo than conventional (used to be the other way). I'm not sure if they help eachother, although I KNOW the sumo helps my squat. I could not pull sumo until a guy names Phil out at Eagle Gym in STL (where the Feb meet will be) worked with me.

 

[barbell265]

It seems to me that if your tall, like me at 6'0", then sumo is the way to go. I have been training sumo style and find it "easier" than conventional. Granted I feel it in the hips more but it's better on my back and also dramaticly shortens the distance I have to pull. Am I thinking right here or am I missing something?

BTW AnimalMass, the program you set up looks good; so good in fact I am going to be doing more lower back and ab work to see if my deads/squats will benefit.

 

[AnimalMass1]

Thanks for the comments about the training.

However, I have to disagree about the conventional vs. sumo issue for two reasons:

1) I am tall and have long lanky arms. I have better leverage with high hips and because my arms are long, the bar doesn't have to travel far.

Also, I am not fat enough yet to pull sumo.

2) It still all comes down to which one you feel most comfortable with. I train both ways, and there is no doubt that I am cut out to train conventional.

If you think about it - if my body style isn't right for conventional deadlifting, then what kind would be?

AnimalMass

 

[Liftbig]

speed speed speed. i think the bands are essential, as is the box, also do some low low box squating. one thing else you could try and this helped me before i started training westside is power cleans from the floor. this will build your explosveness of the floor real well.

i think i am about to make the switch to sumo. first off i am huge, have a huge gut and that makes it hard to breath and keep air when getting down to the bar. and monday i did sumos for me just to try it out and pulled 635, when ive pulled only a tough tough 620 conventional a month ago. my only problem is my lack of knowledge of the sumo becuase i end up handcuffing my self at lockout. all in due time

 

[jayde]

Well,

I wasn't really asking if I should switch to sumo. I was just asking if training sumo would help my conventional deadlift.
AnimalMass

I have been told by a number of top powerlifters, to train the way you will compete. In other words, if you are going to pull conventional, train conventional.
If you are going to bench with a wide grip, train with a wide grip.
I've been having similar back issues as you and found that deadlifting last week was really tough, before i was even done warming up.
I'm NOT tall, but have long legs for my height and found sumo to be awkward, but I'm going to try it this week, as it will put less strain on my lower back.
gabrielle

 

[BodybuildingUniverse]

for your backs sake pull sumo and think speeeeeeeeeed! I never think "if" I am going to get a weight but only how FAST.