PCT is becoming ridiculous

[ledhead]

^^^again thanks for those kind words.

Big Rick is in the process of hiring some guys to post up some articles "tricks in the gym" "diet ideas" etc etc. I know that I am one of the guys who has been talked to about doing that, i'm ready to do it just waiting to hear when it will start. I have always posted threads like that, even if its just to make people think about things at different angles. the ledhead thread going is a perfect example of that hence why it was stickied, not a single post in there is product pushing..

and I have urged more mods to step up and make logs/threads/post pics etc. I've also asked the staff to get a transformation contest going, but if I don't have any support for it or sponsorship its not gonna happen obviously as we need prizes. in the past mods and staff have stepped up and dipped INTO THEIR OWN POCKETS to hand out prizes. we are talking 50, 100, 150+ in prizes and even more in cash. the last contest we weren't able to get enough sponsors for it and we still dipped into our pockets for prizes and its not like we are rich guys.. we are normal joe's.

anyway good things are on the horizon, when its slow like this the product pushing seems worse than it really is

we've got discounts on products, we've got free supplements for people who are willing to make logs. if you are willing to put in some work and do a log and post up pics you have the opportunity for FREE stuff. my PM box is always open for discounts on products. so its not all about making money.

True! And I know that because I'm already hired

 

[ledhead]

I have not done a PCT in years. Someone tell me how long you guy's run them for?

 

[stevesmi]

I dare anyone over 30 let alone over 35 to run a Nolva/clomid pct and get results like the pct in my sig. With bloods to prove it. And let alone after being suppressed for over a year.

No, you don't need 15 things for pct. but you need to come to grips with the fact that ancillaries and pct is going to cost you some coin if you want to get it done right. I would wager 80% of you nolva/clomid guys don't ever get blood work done anyways. So if you are just going off feel that's great but it means nothing.
Now when I speak of my pct in my sig I went a few weeks over because I was shut down for so long. I wont be staying on that long ever again until its really TRT time. But for a normal cycle the same idea of pct would cost probably $160 ish....maybe...I dunno. But how much is your recovery worth. I think $100-175 is reasonable. But that's just me.
f the average cycle is two injectables with an oral kickstart or finish ....as an example, 2-3 vials of long ester test, maybe 2 vials of tren or mast and 200 tabs of var you're looking at $400+ even at very reasonable prices. Then you need to have some AI on hand, caber if your running tren or deca or NPP then your pct. now you are over $600 easy for a 10-12 wk cycle, ancillaries and pct. It is what it is. Guys that bitch about it all and start nickel and diming everything are the ones who cut corners on pct. Also the ones who don't get blood work done.

Bottom line, you need something to make your balls full size. Even if you don't run HCG or HCgenerate on cycle you need to do that pre pct blast while the long esters are clearing. 1 bottle of hcgenerate will do the trick. run it in the two weeks pre pct and for the first two weeks of your actual pct. that should cover you. $60-65 IIRC
You need something to increase free T. Unleashed does what it says it does. How do I know? Blood work. $30
Then something to mediate estrogen, prolactin ect. Post cycle. $30.
Then you need a test booster. I personally have never been as impressed with anything like I was with bridge. $45
If you like DAA you can throw that in for $20

All this is $190-ish before any discounts. If I get my shit from NTBM (which I do) you then add %10 discount which is what...almost $20? Then free shipping. Shit, if you order a bunch of stuff from different places you usually have to tack shipping charges on it which is even more money.

You guys do as you will. But I would bet my perfectly working left nut that if you ran a blast and cruise for a year (which i'm not recommending to non competitors) that your nolva and clomid isn't going to do the trick.
I was at 835 ng/dl before my 13 month blast and cruise. mid pct I was at 750-ish (I would have to look to be 100% accurate but it was mid 700's). Then a month removed from any pct supps and taking absolutely nothing I am now at 837 ng/dl

yeah that thread is gives hope to anyone who goes on for a long time. good job with it

 

[burnthiscorpse]

yeah that thread is gives hope to anyone who goes on for a long time. good job with it

Yes I hope it does. but pertaining to this thread mostly I was trying to get the point across that if that stuff got me back the way it did....from where I was at.... then any 8-12 week cycle should be a thousand times easier to recover from if you do it right.

 

[liffalot]

Thanks Nelson as always you're a wealth of knowledge. It's not me who is confused I think some of the recommendations I see for PCT are way overboard. I'm with you, keep it simple. There is a lot of product pushing going on - good products that all work but I feel it's overboard.

I hear what you mean, but I prefer the attitude of "you can't do too much for PCT" over the attitude of "I don't want to do too much for PCT". Yes it gets expensive and yes some people go overboard, but with a solid PCT you're prepared for everything and you can know for certain that you're recovering to your fullest. Not to mention that it feels really good to just know that you're nice and healthy with balanced hormone levels afterwards.

To me its still pretty simple, I still use the same basic PCT depending on the cycle - I've found what I like and stuck with it.

My Staples:
Always Sarmssearch OSTA
Always Unleashed
Always Forma Stanzol

And then depending on the cycle:
Sometimes Forged Post Cycle
Sometimes Clomid
Sometimes HCG

I think once you wade through the gigantic pile of shit that is the commercial supplement market and find what actually works for you it becomes pretty simple, its just a matter of choice now rather than necessity - a nice development in my opinion.

 

[bcj75]

Thank you.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using EliteFitness

 

[robph]

hey iron bros I just wanted to say the only way to know if your PCT worked its by doing blood work, its a must.. PTC needs to get more aggressive as should your cycles, or else everyone would be on 500mg of test e for 12 wks every cycle.. I do believe research & experimentation with supplements is a must. but the honest truth is that i don't believe in a lot of them.(im not talking about the ones here but more of the bullsh*t supplements in general) that's why unbiased sharing of information is what's valued here at EF. always do your homework and use your head if your d*ick is limp or you are losing 20lbs after cycle.. you need to start adding shit or upping your doses at PCT..it is as important as your cycle..

 

[burnthiscorpse]

hey iron bros I just wanted to say the only way to know if your PCT worked its by doing blood work, its a must.. PTC needs to get more aggressive as should your cycles, or else everyone would be on 500mg of test e for 12 wks every cycle.. I do believe research & experimentation with supplements is a must. but the honest truth is that i don't believe in a lot of them.(im not talking about the ones here but more of the bullsh*t supplements in general) that's why unbiased sharing of information is what's valued here at EF. always do your homework and use your head if your d*ick is limp or you are losing 20lbs after cycle.. you need to start adding shit or upping your doses at PCT..it is as important as your cycle..

Extremely good post.

What the fuck good does it do you to spend $500, 700, $1200 on a killer cycle, train with maximum intensity, get all the sleep you need, spend thousands in food, eat, sleep, breath and shit bodybuilding..... then lose most of it. I don't give a fucking rats ass how you say you feel....I wanna see blood work. The percentage of people that actually get bloods are ridiculously low. People feel ok after cycle so they speculate they are G2G then keep cycling. Then after a while they are fucked up in some way or another. Because they don't get bloods to confirm whether their pct really did what it was supposed to do.

 

[stevesmi]

i would say 90%+ of guys do not get bloodwork done. this is like hiking a trail with no map.

 

[Captain FT]

So in an effort to not seem like there is a bunch of product pushing going on. Let see what some of you guys think for PCT being broken down in three categories based on effectiveness vs cost, the same way I do my IT infrastructure breakdowns

PCT categories are:
"Must Haves" -cost and product break down
"Nice to have"- cost and product break down
"Pie in the sky" - cost and product break down

I think this will help in the decision making process just as it does management with how to proceed with the cost of doing business. It's essentially the same as upgrading you infrastructure (ie your upgrading your body by doing steroids) so here is the cost of doing that business.