newbie says hello and wants advice

[circusgirl]

Hi there folks, so, I'm a newbie to weight training. I did a basic weights programme for around 3 months in my local gym, one of the Fitness First chain. I didn't notice msuscle gain but it was felt good lifting heavier weights each time...

Anyway, for the last 2 months I hvae been on a "cutting" cycle as you guys call it, ie losing body fat, or trying to (see below). I have been doing this by doing 3 hours of taekwondo a week (this is normal, I do martial arts, it's my main reason for maintaining fitness). This is split into an hour on Mondays and two on Tuesdays. On Wednesdays I do nothing because MY LEGS FUCKING ACHE LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER.

Since I've heard lifting while cutting is a waste of time (can't build muscle) I have substituted an hour of steady cardio thurs-sat instead. Diet-wise, I am maintaining a diet 55-60% carbs, 35-40% protein and 15% or so fat every day, where the fat comes mainly from olive oil on salad and low fat cottage cheese or skimmed milk, 1500 cals a day. Sometimes I have a bit more, I have one "cheat" day a week so's I don't fall off the wagon the rest of the time.

WHat I don't understand is the following -
- 1500 cals is a deficit of around 500 cals a day at my current weight (148lbs, down from 160). So why am I so damn hungry all the time? I thought a 500 cal deficit was not a big deal!
- My Tanita body fat scale says I have 36% bf. This has not declined at all with the weight loss. Have I just lost a bunch of muscle or something?

Before you flame me, please remember I am pretty clueless on this stuff, as every magazine I read tells me something different. I have avoided low-carbing as I've heard that once you stop low-carbing you balloon and I need carbs for taekwondo. My number one goal is losing bf to do tkd more effectively and compete in a lower weight class but without losing all my muscle, as otherwise competing in a lower class doesn't offer any competitive advantage (other than not being 3 inches shorter than my oponents, necessitating a gigantic leap in the air to kick 'em in the head).

Most of all, I am sick and tired of being hungry all the time and having to ration my food. I feel like I could cry from around 3pm onwards every day. I've become obsessed with everything I eat and worried about putting on more fat. I'm worried this could be turning into an eating disorder of some kind.

Suggestions folks?

[edited to say I am a female, which is why I'm posting here]

circusgirl

 

[takniteasy]

Welcome!

Not a flame, just a little clarification. Where did you hear or read that lifting while cutting is a waste of time!? Lifting helps me maintain my LBM while cutting. And the more LBM you have the more success you should have when cutting, as muscle burns more calories, even at rest.

As for your diet, what PPM said and I might add that she has a great cutting diet you could search for. Look for Spatterson's posts. I dont remember off hand where it is posted.

Again, welcome and stick around. There are some great women here with awesome advice!

 

[Gladiola]

I agree - toss the Tanita. I personally don't even bother with a caliper reading - you KNOW if your bf is up or down - you can SEE & feel if you have more or less to pinch, more lines of definition, etc. Particularly if you spend enough time flexing in the mirror

Toss your magazines out the window too - except maybe www.muscleandfitnesshers.com - fitness, self, etc. & the other mainstream women's magazines are such CRAP! Anything that doesn't advocate lifting heavy (shows photos of skinny girls with pink dumbells) - ignore!

Reasons you could always be hungry:
Getting enough water?
Try getting 20-25% fat instead of only 15%. Eating fat does not make you fat. Eat some peanut butter.
Getting enough FIBER? -> That's a biggie
eat lots of veggies, some fruits, whole grain stuff like brown rice & oatmeal, try berries. The fiber goes a long way toward making you feel full.

You may honestly need more cals. Everyone keeps telling 10X body weight in cals for maintenance. I weigh about 137 & have been eating 1,800 - 2,00 & have dropped quite a bit of body fat in the past 4 weeks!!!! & I only lift 4X per week, cardio maybe 3X per week, & I sit at a desk all day. Don't starve yourself, it's just plain not worth it.

Plus if you've been eating only 1,500 cals for a while, your body is used to it & you may have stalled your own efforts. Up your cals & experiment - don't go drastically low.

Lift weights when cutting to MAINTAIN LBM (you WILL lose it if you don't use it - then you'll be "skinny fat" - BLECH!) & it does burn calories, as well as keep your metabolic rate raised after your lifting session.

 

[circusgirl]

Hey thanks folks! (about the expectation fo flames, I've been on many boads in the past (mostly music and film-related, not fitness!) where newbies got flamed a lot, so I was protecting my ass).

Here's my workout schedule -
Monday - 1 hour taekwondo. (intensive cardio! very intensive!)
Tuesday - 2 hours taekwondo (since I have to travel quite a distance to get to my tkd school, I get 2 sessions in on a Tuesday - the tournament training session is directly after the regular one).
Wednesday - zzzzzzz.
up til now -
Thurs-Sat - 1 hour moderate cardio.
Sat night - party like it's 1999!
Sun - zzz. urgh. head aches. (no alcohol, just too much dam red bull energy drink).

All that is done in the evenings, the morning does not like me, at all.

So I guess I'll make the following changes to workout, and add in -
- upper body and abs on Monday lunchtime (as tkd on Monday mainly works out legs)
- lower body Thursdays and Saturdays, also Saturday some tkd pattern practice plus any techniques I'm currently having trouble with.
- upper body Friday lunchtime (friday evening is pub time).

I will try to get to the gym for an hour's moderate cardio then thursday and friday mornings, and do some cardio after weights on saturday. Since I like the gym, this should not be a problem (I have problems running outdoors, for some reason either pollen or cold air gets me and I get asthma).

I'll post the weights programme I've been doing up to 2 months ago underneath, let me know what you think.

circusgirl

 

[Gladiola]

Muscle burns fat 24/7. Excessive cardio + lack of food = skinny-fat.

EXACTLY! Yes! Ditto that whole post!

Red Bull? Look how many grams of sugar it has & how many grams of carbs it has. Hmm - I wonder where the carbs are from?! Sugar is awful. Don't get us started.. he he

Close to nature, whole food, high in fiber, etc.

With 2 hours solid of TKD plus all the other cardio - I would DEFINITELY say you are in 'survival mode'. Your body is holding on to & storing fat b/c of the excessive stress you put on it.

Lift 3-4X per week, each body part one time, cardio 3-5 times, MAYBE 6X per week if you reeeeeally want to. No more than 60 min solid. FUEL that cardio too. TKD is intense work & if you are glycogen depleted, you'll burn lean muscle mass for fuel. If TKD is afternoon, eat enough carbs (the vast majority of the carbs you will eat for the day) before that. If it's early in the morning, wake up at 4AM, eat & go back to sleep. Your muscles need to have that glycogen for fuel for all that work.

Be patient & EASIER on your body.

 

[circusgirl]

Well, the purpose of the taekwondo is that taekwondo and tournament sparring are my major sports. These are more important than my physique in the mirror for the time being. So jacking in the tkd because it's intensive isn't an option. I actually want to lose bf and add muscle so I can compete in the lower tkd weight categories BUT have more LBM than my competitors, thereby being able to blast them into the middle of next week without them doing the same to me . Looking ripped would, of course, be a verrrrry nice side-effect.

Since you said cardio 5-7 times I week I thought I'd add in the other sessions, but if I don't have to do that much cardio, I prefer that anyway (no morning cardio - sounds good to me!). So gym, then, twice a week other than the tkd, half a weights session each time. Or I could split tehm up a bit so I can chaperone my husband to ensure he gets in three light cardio sessions a week so he doesn't drop dead on me in 10 years time due to stress and no exercise... I informed him recently that he had joined the gym .

My weights session that I was doing for 3 months until 2 months ago was -
All exercises, 3 sets with 30 second break, 6-8 reps. Once I could achieve 8 reps for 3 sets for a given movement, switched to a higher weight. This way I ended up doing "pyramids" of 8-6-4 most times.

Movements were -
upper body - Smith rack - bench, inclined bench, lateral raise (behind neck thingie) - the big guys thought it was funny to see me stacking up TINY plates on this heheh.
free dumbells - lateral row, tricep pushback (both on bench), bicep curl alternate
cable machine - tricep pulldown, bicep curl
lateral pulldown machine

legs - all machines -
leg press, leg extension, leg curl, adductor, abductor. I made MAJOR progress on these very quickly, must be all that tkd I've been doing for the last 3 years.

abs - lotsa crunches. I've just discovered quite a cool looking abs workout though that's called "ab boot camp". How often a week should I do a full abs programme? Once like the others, or twice? I know fewer quality crunches = 100 crappy ones.

I NEVER cheat and compromise form or range of movement to lift more, as I know that's pointless. And the big guys can lift WAY more than me anyway .

I'm pretty sure this programme could do with some modifcation as the trainer who gave it to me wasn't hugely clued up I don't think although I specifically said I WANTED to bulk up so he wouldn't tell me to "tone" but I'm too confused by the multiplicity of sources around to work out what I should be doing. Bear in mind my gym does not have much in the way of free weights, mainly small-ish dumbells, the Smith rack and lots of machines. So I'll ask here for advice as I'm sure there's plenty of experienced bods on here.

I'm going to try that cutting diet you referred me to, it looks quite manageable and at least I won't be hungry all the time as that was driving me nuts AND having me visualise Snickers bars at every corner. I think I do need more cals - I wasn't counting in the cals from the sport, which I guess when I think about it now added up to a deficit of over 1000 cals on workout days! (duh, slaps forehead).

many thanks all!
circusgirl

 

[Cheetarah]

I just have to say....

You girls are great! And you give out such great, kick-ass information! It's so refreshing to be with other women on the same page as I am. I spend pretty much everyday in my supplement store trying to educate my female customers on the RIGHT way to lose fat. I have not had ONE female come into my store YET (in the past year I've had my store), that DIDN'T have all kinds of myths and wrong information in her head about how to lose fat! I've had to re-educate them ALL!

So kudos to you, you gals rock! You are doing what I do everyday in my supplement store, nice to see I have company!!

 

[circusgirl]

Yeah, I think you're right (no,I KNOW you're right).

I've pretty badly mistreated my body over the past few years. About 3 years ago I was doing 3-4 aerobics classes a week and that was it regarding fitness. Then I took up taekwondo at university (when I started my phd). I absolutely loved it. And my club had training loads of times a week, in fact 2 hours 3 times a week and 3 hours on Saturdays.

Now, I didn't realise that my tendency to eat craploads of junk food and sometimes do 3 hours of training on nothing but coffee and doughnuts wasn't, erm, the most performance-enhancing way of going about it. And that more, longer and harder training isn't always better (anyone else here ever get caught in "more is better" syndrome?). The coach used to emphasise turning up to as many sessions as possible because they had problems getting people to the unpopularly timed friday evening and saturday afternoon sessions - I took this to mean I had to go to every session.

So I did. I systematically overtrained and overstretched myself for around 2 years without stopping, never realising that my constant fatigue and seeming inability to get any stronger or fitter was related - I thought this was because I ddin't train enough. And I also started to put on loads of weight due to a combination of increased appetite and shitty eating habits (peperoni pizza as a performance food anyone? don't think so). I gained 35 pounds in 2 years - most of it not muscle.

Having taken a complete break of 3 months from exercise due to shin splints (they are now gone),
I have moved to a new city and have started a new job and had time to rethink my attitude to the sport - which is why I now limit myself to 2 taekwondo sessions a week with maybe some extra technical practice at the weekends for gradings and pattern competitions - and my technique, endurance and general performance has really improved. It had been pointed out to me nicely by a coach that my problem in sparring was I wasn't overweight but didn't have as much LBM as a lot of my competitors, hence why they seemed to be stronger and kicked harder. Hence the recent diet.

Unfotunately getting down to a lower weight category means diddly squat if I also lose muscle. I have started the "spatts cutting diet" today - oooh it's nice eating all that food (I actually LIKE low fat cottage cheese, for instance, and skimmed milk). I'm substituting the above for some of the tuna portions because frankly one can of tuna a day is all I can stomach . Will get to the gym for some lifting too this weekend. It's good news for me that weights are good for me because I quite enjoyed doing them before - racking up heavier and heavier weights each session and seeming to just improve really quickly was loads of fun! Really improved my self-esteem which had been worn down by the overtraining! I will work in some plyometrics once I have a reasonable amount of muscle built up - plus muscle will protect my knees and shins from getting shin splints again.

I'll get to build some muscle putting together all that Ikea furniture in a few weeks time .

Thanks for all your advice folks!
circusgirl

 

[circusgirl]

My previous routine was very similar to the 2-day-a-week programme advocated in the post from Master Trainer magazine that's at the top of the sticky thread in
this forum. I was doing pretty much two full programmes a week, very similar list of machines/weights to that given there.

Three sets of reps with break between, the idea according to the gym trainer was
that if I did 3 sets with 30 seconds break I would train my muscles to recover
quickly as well as to lift. This true? The article in the thread here said 1 set
to failure. Plus, should I do an entire routine once a week or twice? And should I stick to doing abs twice a week or is it better to do abs every day like my
taekwondo instructor does? Anyway I was advised that I needed to build up general strength first and then go for pwer and speed drills as I needed a good base of muscle before I started doing those as they are hard on the joints.

Now, as my tkd days are Monday and Tuesday, I think I'll be in the weights room
on Thursdays and Saturdays. Evening on Thursday, and afternoon on Saturday (failing that I'll be lugging furniture round at Ikea, but that's another story - my
husband and I have just bought our first appartment). This should ensure some recovery time between all the tkd and the weights.

Regarding diet, I presume you mean .5g carbs per pound on non-training days and
1g per pound on training days? And the cutting diet page shows an average between the two, right? I think fitday will tell me how many grams of carb in various
foods. Actually I think fitday is a load of crap most of the time but it has its
uses. I'm presuming I should eat the protein part all the time, not just training days? Sorry about all the questions.

I've put the Tanita in the bathroom cupboard BTW . (I'm keeping it to weigh myself for tournament entry forms, it does kilograms too - tournaments here all use kilos - but this way it'll be outta sight, outta mind).

once again, thanks a bunch!
circusgirl


~

 

[new@gettinbig]

Hi and welcome.....and yes u can build muscle while cutting....that is what will make u lean....LIFT LIFT LIFT....cut back on the cardio junk!