Newbie cycles that vets could learn from.

[sergio]

Could it be that the reason some do not react to low doses is because they are not training, eating and sleeping well. There are a shit load of people out there that don't train well and are over trained.
If you can't make good gains initailly off of 10-20 of d-bol then you are doing something very wrong!



RG

You're generalizing too much, I personally don't react to d-bol. And yes,it was real, and my training,diet,and rest was solid.
The BBing greats you're comparing us to is unfair...they're genetic freaks,unlike the 95% of us. But I do agree,most of us take more gear than we need...

 

[sergio]

I think d-bol is a great hormone for mass and I also think that 600 of primo and 50 of d-bol per day can get one pretty darn big if you train really hard , eat well and rest well.......but Arnold wasn't know for his brutal workouts.........he did have great genetics though..... damn it all.

Oh and he had Weider on his side all the time and thats why he won the 80 Olympia while in terrible shape and with no legs at all. You should have heard the crowd when he won........BOOOOOO big time. Should have been Zane or Mentzer for sure.

Mentzer quit pro bodybuilding at the age of 28 as a result of this Weider/Arnold combo crap and we never saw Mentzer each his peak! Too bad.
I loved Honest Mike.
RG

Mike Mentzer is definitely the real deal,he's my mentor. I use his training/diet methods,and it's really worked for me. I think his 'Heavy Duty'book should be required reading for everyone

 

[Realgains]

You're generalizing too much, I personally don't react to d-bol. And yes,it was real, and my training,diet,and rest was solid.
The BBing greats you're comparing us to is unfair...they're genetic freaks,unlike the 95% of us. But I do agree,most of us take more gear than we need...

I do not generalize too much!
You should be able to gain very well WITHOUT steroids at all.....up to your natural genetic max weight IF you know how to train correctly as a natural. That means you should be able to get to a fairly lean 190 pounds at the average height of 5'9 or 10" without steroids at all.
Problem is most men don't have a bloody clue how to train naturally. If you train correctly and eat and rest properly AND THEN add 20 of d-bol you will gain very nicely and blow past your natural max weight.
20 of d-bol is plenty for a recreational lifter unless you have some kind of assimilation problem with the orals in which case you should avoid them and stick to moderate dose injectables. I have never seen that BTW.


RG

 

[sergio]

I do not generalize too much!
You should be able to gain very well WITHOUT steroids at all.....up to your natural genetic max weight IF you know how to train correctly as a natural. That means you should be able to get to a fairly lean 190 pounds at the average height of 5'9 or 10" without steroids at all.
Problem is most men don't have a bloody clue how to train naturally. If you train correctly and eat and rest properly AND THEN add 20 of d-bol you will gain very nicely and blow past your natural max weight.
20 of d-bol is plenty for a recreational lifter unless you have some kind of assimilation problem with the orals in which case you should avoid them and stick to moderate dose injectables. I have never seen that BTW.


RG

Yea, 30mgs/week oral dbol did nothing for me. Do you think I might see results with an injectible? Like reforvit?

 

[gwl9dta4]

I do not generalize too much!
You should be able to gain very well WITHOUT steroids at all.....up to your natural genetic max weight IF you know how to train correctly as a natural. That means you should be able to get to a fairly lean 190 pounds at the average height of 5'9 or 10" without steroids at all.
Problem is most men don't have a bloody clue how to train naturally. If you train correctly and eat and rest properly AND THEN add 20 of d-bol you will gain very nicely and blow past your natural max weight.
20 of d-bol is plenty for a recreational lifter unless you have some kind of assimilation problem with the orals in which case you should avoid them and stick to moderate dose injectables. I have never seen that BTW.


RG

I will post on your thread again to help support the point you are making. I have done cycles of 100mp primo per week and gained decently. My first cycle was 50mg winny 2x per week. Gained 10 lbs. those cycles got me to 220lbs at 6'2. And i do not have great genetics. At 15 years old i could not do one friggin push up, not one and forget about pullups. What RG is saying makes perfect sence.

If your training and diet is on track you WILL make gains naturally. No need for anabolics. When you add the anabolics in, then you will literally grow like a beast from small doses. Case and point, i made my best gains and got to 280 lbs on only 500mg of sust, and that was thanks to a good diet and training, not the test. Low doses teach you to NOT rely on a pill for you muscles, but your diet and training.

And to all the guys that say training and diet were spot on and low doses did not work, you're full of shit. You don't know what you are talking about, seek a professional trainers help because you are lost and don't know it.

 

[Texas Ranger]

Sergio, this is not a flame or is meant in ANY disresepct to you at all, but 30mgs of Dbol seems like a pretty decent dose for a first timer. It seems like you should have gained something from it. Maybe, you should try a low dose of Test@250mgs a week.

 

[Realgains]

I will post on your thread again to help support the point you are making. I have done cycles of 100mp primo per week and gained decently. My first cycle was 50mg winny 2x per week. Gained 10 lbs. those cycles got me to 220lbs at 6'2. And i do not have great genetics. At 15 years old i could not do one friggin push up, not one and forget about pullups. What RG is saying makes perfect sence.

If your training and diet is on track you WILL make gains naturally. No need for anabolics. When you add the anabolics in, then you will literally grow like a beast from small doses. Case and point, i made my best gains and got to 280 lbs on only 500mg of sust, and that was thanks to a good diet and training, not the test. Low doses teach you to NOT rely on a pill for you muscles, but your diet and training.

And to all the guys that say training and diet were spot on and low doses did not work, you're full of shit. You don't know what you are talking about, seek a professional trainers help because you are lost and don't know it.

YES!!!

And this is an example of how to reach your natural max weight without juice...DO THIS.......***DON"T TRAIN LIKE THE PRO's IN THE MAGS AT ALL!!! In fact don't even look at the routines in those mags. These guys are genetic freaks that don't go to school or have other jobs. They are not good role models in regard to training for the most part. Dorian Yates is an exception and there are afew others, although the average guy cannot train as intensly as him all the time and expect to grow.

Train on the basic compound movements if not exclusively then almost so. Squat hard and deep and deadlilf in some form. Train with a lowish volume and train damn hard. I could make some of you guys throw up with only three sest of 12 in the squat..and you want to do 20 sets of quads eh ..he he he . High volume = lowish intensity and over training for 99% of bro's.
The last rep in each working set should be the very last rep that you could possibly do in good form. Forced reps are not needed as a natural but can be used prudently.
Almost nobody trains this hard on the squat and deadlift BTW.

Always try to be adding tiny amounts of weight to the bars. Once the going gets tough even 1 pound per week on the bench is good progress...keep that up for 9 months and you will be much bigger in the chest shoulders and tri's. Get some tiny plates at www.fractionalplates.com

You must alllow for recuperation so plenty of time out of the gym per week is needed. I got great results from training on a three way split in which I trained MON- WED and FRI hitting each mucsle group directly once per week. On steroids I increased my volume very slightly and trained every other day and that hitting each mucsle group once every 6 days. This is sometimes too much for the squat and deadlift especially as you get strong even on steroids.
Don't try to train all out all the time. Take a week off every few months and start another training cycle with about 90% of your previous bests for reps and work past this mark slowlly over several weeks.

You must not try to be an aerobic machine and expect to gain well. Limit cardio to three days per week for 30 minutes each while trying to gain muscle mass.

You must eat all the time but only of quality food which is low in saturated fat and high in essential fatty acids. Eat every three to four hours in small amounts. Try to get plenty of carbs. Try to get a gram of protein per pound of body weight and up to twice that much when on steroids. You may need to use a supplemental protein drink. Whey isolate is best but even a good milk/egg protein is great.

You must sleep at least 8 hours per day every day!

Now you will grow!

Then if you think it is time and you want to try roids then try modest amounts of gear like 20 of d-bol per day in four divided doses for 6 weeks or low dose injectables which are less stessful on the liver.
Take tylers detox pills and or ala while on the orals.

You don't need to stack steroids for good results although some combo's are synergenic.

Best book on bodybuilding is "A Warriors Story" by Dorian Yates

Best book on roids is "Anabolics 2002" by William Llewellyn

RG

 

[sergio]

Sergio, this is not a flame or is meant in ANY disresepct to you at all, but 30mgs of Dbol seems like a pretty decent dose for a first timer. It seems like you should have gained something from it. Maybe, you should try a low dose of Test@250mgs a week.

Need to clarify..I used dbol at the beginning of a cycle(my 2nd), with no gains/strength. I took it along with deca/sus. I don't seem to respond to oral dbol,was just wondering if the injectible reforvit would be any different...

 

[Focker]

I will be startng a test/dbol cycle in febuary and I have more than enough dbol for my cycle and have been contemplating on whether or not to do a short (4 weeks or so) dbol only cycle at 10-20 mg per day. If I was to do this would I need arimidex? And what about clomid? I have both of these for my planned cycle in feb but it seems kinda riduculous to use them for such a small dbol only cycle. What are any of ya'lls thoughts on this matter. Should I just wait until feb or is the short dbol only cycle worth doing??? This thread seems quite encouraging but what are the anti-e rules or advice for such small dosage cycles... Thanks.

 

[Mandinka2]

Reagains

Hi Realgains ,
I've posted on one of your threads before and will be starting the short cycle you recomended ,however just to clarify , I believe that Arnold was famous for gulping down 9 dianabol (45mgs!) in a single dose with milk , so I reckon that means he took about 50 (250mgs) of dbol a day which is a lot , even by some of the more excessive board members standards. Please confirm if Mentzer used 20 dbol (100 mgs) of dbol a day or just 20mgs/day. I also train like him and grow pretty well although I'm pretty locked out at 225/230lbs and 6'.