Newbie cycles that vets could learn from.

[Realgains]

NEWBIES..... you would do very well following this advice.
Vets.......... maybe we have something to learn still.

After doing much digging in regard to the way men used to cycle years ago I have come to the conclusion that 98% of us use too much gear....please read on.

I have always been a believer in using as little gear as possible but even I have used way too much in the past and this has resulted in big sides.

Here are examples of cycles used by the pro's of the late 60's and 70's. They were certainly well developed men actually looked better then most of the pro's today IMHO.

My Hero The late great Mike Mentzer was considered a man living on the edge in the late 70's and up until he retired after the 80 Olympia.

MIKE MENTZER
In prep for the 80 Olympia Mike used 400 of deca and 20 or 30 of d-bol per day. I think it was actually 20 of d-bol . I believe he took the d-bol for 4-6 weeks only.This was considered a BIG dose of juice. This was published in his "Heavy Duty Journal" and was well know . Mike was one of the only Bodybuilders that made "no bones" about his roid use.
Now Mike was a big guy and very strong and walked around in the off season at about 250 fairly lean pounds at 5'-9"

The following I got from Nelson Montana.

ARNOLD
He reported liked 600 of primo and 50 of d-bol per day.

SERGIO
This huge bro used 200 of deca/week and 20 of winny per day.

FRANK ZANE
Frank likeed 100 of deca and 100 of primo and was know to use a little thyroid as well.

DAVE DRAPER
Dave used 25 of winny per day way back in the late 60's

LARRY SCOTT
Larry used 10 of d-bol in divided doses per day. This was considered a large dose back in the mid 60's

Now all these guys are bigger than 95% of the members of this board I am sure and if they didn't need large doses then why do you?
Do what they did......be a lifter first and then use a little roid as a SUPPLEMENT.

Unless you are 40 or more pounds above your natural maximum weight AND are a top competitor I see no reason to use high doses of gear. Even Quadsweep "The Voice of Reason" who is a top national level competitor doesn't use half the juice that many of you use.

It has been said by many that gains made slowly and in smaller jumps are kept better. I for one strongly believe this. The human body is not meant to gain 30 pounds of bulk in 8 weeks..much of that will be lost post cycle as the body just can't hold it all at once. It makes much better sence to gain slowly but surely. It is better for your health and the low doses avoid the puffy watery look that was not even acceaptable in the off season in 1975.


Perhaps we all need to re-think how we use steroids.

Realgains suggestions for the newbies.

200 of deca/week for 10 weeks and 10- 20 of d-bol per day for 4-6 weeks in divided doses.

200 of deca/week for 10 weeks and 25 of winstrol per day for 4-6 weeks

250 of test alone for 8-10 weeks

250-400 of primo alone

250-300 of EQ alone

10-20 of d-bol alone in four divided doses per day for 6 weeks

Good luck!





RG

 

[Texas Ranger]

Great post, Realgains!! I see posts about the Gear use of some of the former Mr.Olympias and have to shake my head. Arnold did 50mgs of Dbol a day and 600mgs of Primo, Sergio did 200mgs of Deca and 20mgs of Winstrol, and Dave Draper did 25mgs of Winstrol a day! These guys had AWESOME physiques!!! Now we have newbies doing a gram of Gear for their First Cycle-Test@500mgs, Deca@400mgs, and Dbol@30mgs a day. What's worse is we have Vets actually advising them to do it!!! It's sad....

 

[Realgains]

NEWBIES..... you would do very well following this advice.
Vets.......... maybe we have something to learn still.

After doing much digging in regard to the way men used to cycle years ago I have come to the conclusion that 98% of us use too much gear....please read on.

I have always been a believer in using as little gear as possible but even I have used way too much in the past and this has resulted in big sides.

Here are examples of cycles used by the pro's of the late 60's and 70's. They were certainly well developed men actually looked better then most of the pro's today IMHO.

My Hero The late great Mike Mentzer was considered a man living on the edge in the late 70's and up until he retired after the 80 Olympia.

MIKE MENTZER
In prep for the 80 Olympia Mike used 400 of deca and 20 or 30 of d-bol per day. I think it was actually 20 of d-bol . I believe he took the d-bol for 4-6 weeks only.This was considered a BIG dose of juice. This was published in his "Heavy Duty Journal" and was well know . Mike was one of the only Bodybuilders that made "no bones" about his roid use.
Now Mike was a big guy and very strong and walked around in the off season at about 250 fairly lean pounds at 5'-9"

The following I got from Nelson Montana.

ARNOLD
He reported liked 600 of primo and 50 of d-bol per day.

SERGIO
This huge bro used 200 of deca/week and 20 of winny per day.

FRANK ZANE
Frank likeed 100 of deca and 100 of primo and was know to use a little thyroid as well.

DAVE DRAPER
Dave used 25 of winny per day way back in the late 60's

LARRY SCOTT
Larry used 10 of d-bol in divided doses per day. This was considered a large dose back in the mid 60's

Now all these guys are bigger than 95% of the members of this board I am sure and if they didn't need large doses then why do you?
Do what they did......be a lifter first and then use a little roid as a SUPPLEMENT.

Unless you are 40 or more pounds above your natural maximum weight AND are a top competitor I see no reason to use high doses of gear. Even Quadsweep "The Voice of Reason" who is a top national level competitor doesn't use half the juice that many of you use.

It has been said by many that gains made slowly and in smaller jumps are kept better. I for one strongly believe this. The human body is not meant to gain 30 pounds of bulk in 8 weeks..much of that will be lost post cycle as the body just can't hold it all at once. It makes much better sence to gain slowly but surely. It is better for your health and the low doses avoid the puffy watery look that was not even acceaptable in the off season in 1975.


Perhaps we all need to re-think how we use steroids.

Realgains suggestions for the newbies.

200 of deca/week for 10 weeks and 10- 20 of d-bol per day for 4-6 weeks in divided doses. Clomid at 300mg on day one in divided doses 3 weeks after the last deca shot and 50 per day for 4 weeks.

200 of deca/week for 10 weeks and 25 of winstrol per day for 4-6 weeks. Colimid as above

BUT WHY STACK there really is little need to. SO TRY.......

250 of test alone for 8-10 weeks. Clomid at 300 per day in divided doses on day one and then 50 per day for 4 weeks...unless you use sust which in that case start clomid three weeks after your last shot.

250-400 of primo alone. Clomid as with the sust above.

250-300 of EQ alone. Clomid as with the the primo and sust above...maybe strting the clomid about 17-18 days after the last shot.

10-20 of d-bol alone in four divided doses per day for 6 weeks. Clomid at 300 per day the day after your last d-bol. 300 on day one and then 50 per day for 3-4 weeks.

The strongest stack would be 250 of test per week and 25- 50 of tren per day...more than enough and expect bad acne with this one. Clomid 300 per day two weeks after the last cyp or enanthate shot, three weeks after sust and then 50 per day for 4 weeks.

In all the cycles of 8 weeks or more it may be wise ton use HCG at 500 iu's per day either IM or sub Q in the lower belly fat during the last two weeks of the cycle. This will get the testes up to 100% size so they can respond well to LH from the pituitary after the cycle ends. In this way your natural test will jump back quickly and you will loose less.

The mildest stack is the primo and you won't need hcg with this one at all.

Not: If using the aromatizing gear Test, d-bol and even EQ be sure to have nolvadex on hand and take 20 per day if the nipples start to feel sore.

Good luck!





RG

 

[chrisoh]

not everyone reacts the same to smaller doses, those guys are probably exceptions and reacted very well. In my first cycle, i needed 100mg of winny/day and almost 100mg/fina to see results, lower doses would've given me crap. I did everything right, didnt feel a pump till i upped to those doses... but i did gain 25lbs on a cutting cycle

 

[Mike P.T.]

Although I do agree with you that far too many people on here use too high of a dose to get that quick fix(competitive vets do not apply because in all honesty, they do what they have to do even though personally I would never) you also have to remember that not everyone on here has the genetics of the individuals you just mentioned. They were your genetic elite. They didn't even have access to proper training and supplements back then. Another thing is that you never know if they lied about their doseages either. I mean how do you really know if that's all they used.

I have even changed my mind about longer more moderate cycles(6months I tried just this past cycle) for my personal goals and will do moderate length(8-10 weeks on) moderately low doseage cycles for my upcoming cycles from now on. Everyone has their priorites and mine have definately changed.

BTW - The newbie cycles you mentioned are excellent suggestions.

 

[Realgains]

Could it be that the reason some do not react to low doses is because they are not training, eating and sleeping well. There are a shit load of people out there that don't train well and are over trained.
If you can't make good gains initailly off of 10-20 of d-bol then you are doing something very wrong!

RG

 

[Quadsweep]

There you go Real.....Stuck! While I do think people should use low doses as much as possible for as long as, I do have to admit that my dosages have accelerated a lot this year. I am still using far less than many of the people I compete aginst but I have posted my cycles and they are pretty high now but if you wanna run with the big dogs..........If it is just for yourself and you do not compete take your time a little bit......Rome was not built in a day!

Quad

P.S. Good Post Realgains!

 

[chrisoh]

i wonder if you can run var or winny year round at around 20mg

 

[Mike P.T.]

Could it be that the reason some do not react to low doses is because they are not training, eating and sleeping well. There are a shit load of people out there that don't train well and are over trained.
If you can't make good gains initailly off of 10-20 of d-bol then you are doing something very wrong!

RG

VERY TRUE!! But still others are just impatient or some really are genetically challenged in the way they gain naturally and in how their individual receptors handle juice. Far too many people though with good genetics are just lazy or really impatient though and don't want to learn how to train or eat right.

 

[Texas Ranger]

I agree with Mike P.T 100%!! Think about this- Normal males on the average produce between 50-70mgs of Test a week. The guys producing 70mgs a week are considered genetic freaks! When someone recommends a newbie to use Test Enanthate or Cyp@250mgs a week, they get laughed at. Without the ester, that's 180mgs of free Testosterone for a newbie!! That's 2-3 times what we produce on our own!! And you STILL can't make gains???