Mike Mentzer Underground Seminar

[csobel]

I should read the book? I have read the book... all of them... and I knew Mike thank you very much which is more than you can say for yourself. I don't know why you feel that I am attacking you, when we really agree on the pricipal point of the argument: that HIT is great for mass gains.

Point 1: I am not printing misinformation... the fact of the matter is, I am not talking about tendinitis type injuries that are incurred from daily repitition, but rather rupture-type injuries that arise on the spot.

Point 2: If you are working out 5 days a week you are in better shape than if you are working out 1-2 days a week. It's that simple.

Point 3: I am making a statement that it would be unwise to use HIT for strength training. If HIT were good for strength powerlifters would train that way, but it is not, so they don't.

 

[csobel]

I agree that volume has also been responsible for many ruined physiques in the past, but I think those cases probably deal with extremes aka 90 sets in a workout.

 

[Mr.HeavyDuty]

I knew Mike as well, was a client of his and remain in touch with his business partner. Thank YOU very much. I do not feel like you are attacking me, just putting volume workouts in a little too good of a light. We do agree on the basic pemise of the conversation here.

point one-rupture type injuries occur more in volume type workouts due to the constant strain of set after set.

point two-dude c'mon, that is a huge myth surrounding Heavy Duty as opposed to high volume. When you say shape, do you mean muscularity wise or cardio wise. They are two seperate things.

point three-Heavy Duty is a philosophy, powerlifters still train with less volume and rest a lot more than your typical bodybuilder. So, in a way they do incorporate themes from a HIT style routine.

 

[csobel]

Point 1: I should have clarified myself better on this one... it is not necessarily HIT in principal and perfect practice that would cause more/less injuries than volume. What I meant to say is that when someone has sub par form and attempts a HIT workeout, it tends to end in injury faster than would with normal volume training. I've seen it with many college atheletes who zelously try HIT and rupture, for example, the exstensor tendon doing a pre-exhaust set of very heavy fly's followed by inc. presses. Or dislocate a shoulder.
So I guess I was wrong to say that HIT causes injuries; this I am not sure of; but rather meant that the poor implementation of HIT can cause injuries, which at least from my experience has proven true.

Point 2: Weightlifting is cardiovascular in nature, especially when you are doing 4 or 5 one hour workeouts a week that involve many sets. Simply put, without having to do extra cardio (thus creating a more catabolic enviornment) I would venture to say (and I really don't know if this is true or not) that the VO2 max of someone doing volume is higher than someone doing just HIT. Granted, the person doing HIT has loads more time to endulge in other activities like martial arts/other sports that would do a much better job of raising that VO2 max than would weightlifting by itself.

Point 3: True, both sports share the same principal of more rest between workeouts. I don't know where I was going with that one...

 

[Mr.HeavyDuty]

Point one: I completely agree with you bro. I don't think I could have said it better myself. Too many people try to jump into a Heavy Duty style workout to quickly with piss poor form and too much weight and find themselves getting more rest than they could ever hope to get due to injury.

Point two: Believe it or not, I agree with you here as well. You are one of very few people that I have ever spoken with that agrees with me that weight training is indeed cardiovascular. If you are looking for muscular endurance than training high volume is the way to go for sure. I train in Heavy Duty style because I am also a collegiate wrestler. I am allowed more time to train outside of the gym and burn fewer calories and still grow larger and stronger because of this. I train a little bit more high volume and shorter duration between workouts in the offseason to conditioin my body differently for a bit.

I have enjuoyed this discussion bro, thanks for keeping it a lively discussion as oppossed to getting all pissy like some of the other people on this board.

 

[ham2]

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I agree with you here as well. You are one of very few people that I have ever spoken with that agrees with me that weight training is indeed cardiovascular.
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Charles Poliquin ( the world famous olympic coach etc ) thinks that way as well.

 

[csobel]

You're welcome bro--I overreacted at first but I am myself bipolar so I tend to get weird sometimes.

I've learned a lot from this--in fact, I've been considering going back to HIT since I am trying to nurse some elbow tendinitis at the moment. Which was caused by... drumroll... many sets of preacher curl drops.

 

[Mr.HeavyDuty]

I think we are all a "little" bipolar at times, hahahaha..lol.

Dude, seriously, if I can ever help you let me know and I would gladly do so if I can. I have never been healthier(knock on wood)than when I have been training Heavy Duty style.

 

[csobel]

Ok thanks man--I may have a few questions later on, I'll let you!