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Mike Mentzer Underground Seminar
- Thread starter maccer
- Start date
i understand you meant "f@cking unbelievable" by "sick shit" and i addressed it.
Bass has written several books & courses ( which used to be advertised once in magazines. Hence i think you may find them on amazon etc ) & used to be a columnist.
What i mean again is he represents diet to a fanatic state of the art level.
However not the way you get onstage as a winner, if you exclude some pathetic third tier "natural amateur" village competitions.
Bass has written several books & courses ( which used to be advertised once in magazines. Hence i think you may find them on amazon etc ) & used to be a columnist.
What i mean again is he represents diet to a fanatic state of the art level.
However not the way you get onstage as a winner, if you exclude some pathetic third tier "natural amateur" village competitions.
Mr.HeavyDuty
New member
I know that I am a little late in this thread, but I wanted to share my Heavy Duty experience. I have made the best gains in my lifting using his methods. I gained nearly 25 pounds, (all natural from 190 to 215) ofcourse not all of that was muscle but my gains were phenomanal to say the least. I simply did not concern myself with losing size or strength and dedicated myself to his program and was rewarded for that belief.
However, I will say that using his methods will decrease your strength on some movements such as bench and shrugs most notably(they are not an active part of the routine). But, no big deal for me, my goal is to be big not the strongest man ever. My delts, triceps, legs and calves saw the biggest increases on this program. After nearly a year on the program I went to a 3 day a week schedule, much like the one Mentzer prescribes in his first Heavy Duty book, but with more volume to change things up on my body for awhile. My gains slowed down and I actually lost a little strength, but I have been quite active with my cardio as well, so that could be the main reason for this problem.
Now, i have started back on the Heavy Duty method, with some slight modifications to include more direct trap work and chest work during my workouts, and am already seeing changes for the better in my physique again. I would recommend Heavy Duty to anyone serious about making gains. If you like to hang out in the gym all the time and talk and play then this is not you routine. VERY INTENSE, VERY BRIEF, AND VERY EFFECTIVE. I trained several of my clients on this routine and they experienced twice the gains as my more "soft" clients. Mentzer was extemely bright and gifted and I give him credit for much of my success, but you have to read through some of his talk and get straight down to the training philosophy. He had his own set of beliefs for life and tried to incorporate that into his training philosophy, and that sometimes confuses people. In the end for me, I consider him a genius in his principles (as well as Yates, Jones, Viator, Ray Mentzer).
I recommend his books and training principles, but I do not advocate is maintance routine. Too little work and not plausible for the serious bodybuliding athlete. If any one has more direct questions for me I would be happy to answer them and explain his principles in more detail.
However, I will say that using his methods will decrease your strength on some movements such as bench and shrugs most notably(they are not an active part of the routine). But, no big deal for me, my goal is to be big not the strongest man ever. My delts, triceps, legs and calves saw the biggest increases on this program. After nearly a year on the program I went to a 3 day a week schedule, much like the one Mentzer prescribes in his first Heavy Duty book, but with more volume to change things up on my body for awhile. My gains slowed down and I actually lost a little strength, but I have been quite active with my cardio as well, so that could be the main reason for this problem.
Now, i have started back on the Heavy Duty method, with some slight modifications to include more direct trap work and chest work during my workouts, and am already seeing changes for the better in my physique again. I would recommend Heavy Duty to anyone serious about making gains. If you like to hang out in the gym all the time and talk and play then this is not you routine. VERY INTENSE, VERY BRIEF, AND VERY EFFECTIVE. I trained several of my clients on this routine and they experienced twice the gains as my more "soft" clients. Mentzer was extemely bright and gifted and I give him credit for much of my success, but you have to read through some of his talk and get straight down to the training philosophy. He had his own set of beliefs for life and tried to incorporate that into his training philosophy, and that sometimes confuses people. In the end for me, I consider him a genius in his principles (as well as Yates, Jones, Viator, Ray Mentzer).
I recommend his books and training principles, but I do not advocate is maintance routine. Too little work and not plausible for the serious bodybuliding athlete. If any one has more direct questions for me I would be happy to answer them and explain his principles in more detail.
Mr.HeavyDuty
New member
I followed Mentzer's prescribed routine in his Heavy Duty 2 Mind and Body book. One workout every 96 to 120 hours, depending on how my recovery from my previous workout was coming along. Sometimes I took as much as 7 or 8 days to recover from certain workouts, most notably the chest and back workout, I know that most people would balk at this much time off but the proof is in the pudding for me. I grew like a weed from his methods and am looking forward to the new growth that I will attain from my upcoming phase.
Anyways, start your week with chest and back (if you do not have the workout let me know), depending on how you feel in 96 hours you will next proceed to your prescribed Leg workout. After another 96 hours it is on to your shoulder and arm routine, after another 96 hours or so it is back to Legs. After this cycle is complete you will then begin the cycle with chest and back all over again. Different methods such as rest-pause and drop sets and heavy partials can be added once you are accustomed to the workout. They are all very effective methods and you must be careful to not to overtrain in any of them. I always to one moderatly heavy warm up before my one all out set to adjust my body to the heavy weights.
This method is excellent for mass, however, I must caution you to regulate your carb intake on your training days and your days off, back off of the carbs on your days off by 100-150. Up your calories on your training day by 300 calories (extra carbs) or so to accomodate for the extra output of energy. This was a mistake that I made early on and had to quickly adjust so that I did not pack on any unsightly fat deposits.
I have to add that after my first workout back on the routine my body was completely exhausted. I felt as though that my body had beeen through a war, and in a sense I guess that it has!!
Anymore specific questions I would be happy to answer for you Maccer if I was too general here in my post.
Anyways, start your week with chest and back (if you do not have the workout let me know), depending on how you feel in 96 hours you will next proceed to your prescribed Leg workout. After another 96 hours it is on to your shoulder and arm routine, after another 96 hours or so it is back to Legs. After this cycle is complete you will then begin the cycle with chest and back all over again. Different methods such as rest-pause and drop sets and heavy partials can be added once you are accustomed to the workout. They are all very effective methods and you must be careful to not to overtrain in any of them. I always to one moderatly heavy warm up before my one all out set to adjust my body to the heavy weights.
This method is excellent for mass, however, I must caution you to regulate your carb intake on your training days and your days off, back off of the carbs on your days off by 100-150. Up your calories on your training day by 300 calories (extra carbs) or so to accomodate for the extra output of energy. This was a mistake that I made early on and had to quickly adjust so that I did not pack on any unsightly fat deposits.
I have to add that after my first workout back on the routine my body was completely exhausted. I felt as though that my body had beeen through a war, and in a sense I guess that it has!!
Anymore specific questions I would be happy to answer for you Maccer if I was too general here in my post.
Mr.HeavyDuty
New member
Understandable, most peole get addicted to the atmosphere and love the feeling that they get being in the gym nearly every day. I am one of those people as well. I love being in the gym grinding out sets, but I love making gains more than I love going through the motions of endless sets. Sometimes I get pretty bored sitting around waiting for my next workout, but the gains that I made from my previous experience have solidified my belief in the Heavy Duty system. I am also a collegiate athlete so this routine allows me plnety of time to focus on my goals outside of the gym. Anyways, good luck when you do try the routine. You can always buy the first Heavy Duty book and follow its 3 day a week routine. It is still highly effective compared to more traditional methods.
csobel
New member
Some thoughts on HIT, from personal experience and conversations with Frank Zane et al.
HIT definantly works for putting on a lot of mass, there is no question about that. Especially for people with poor recuperative ability, it works wonders compared to the overtraining that volume tends to induce, or as a break from volume when one plateus.
However, it is very poor for the following things:
1) Joint and tendon health--the pre-exhaust sets to failure put loads more stress on joints and tendons than do straight sets. Hence, injuries are very common using HIT.
2) Being in shape--Since you are working out like once to twice a week for not much time at all, you are in terrible shape unless you are doing a lot of extra cardio...
3) Strength. Pre-exhaust is not the way to 1 rep max strength on compound movements.
I think that Mike's zeolousness over his HIT method being the only way is kinda weird but then again he was bipolar and was pretty much in the deep end for about a year after his loss to zane in 79. Since obviously volume is responsable for almost all of the great physiques today and back then, I think that there are important aspects of both that we can use; alternating the two methods for example, works well, but we are all different so whatever works for YOU in the end is right, be it volume or HIT.
HIT definantly works for putting on a lot of mass, there is no question about that. Especially for people with poor recuperative ability, it works wonders compared to the overtraining that volume tends to induce, or as a break from volume when one plateus.
However, it is very poor for the following things:
1) Joint and tendon health--the pre-exhaust sets to failure put loads more stress on joints and tendons than do straight sets. Hence, injuries are very common using HIT.
2) Being in shape--Since you are working out like once to twice a week for not much time at all, you are in terrible shape unless you are doing a lot of extra cardio...
3) Strength. Pre-exhaust is not the way to 1 rep max strength on compound movements.
I think that Mike's zeolousness over his HIT method being the only way is kinda weird but then again he was bipolar and was pretty much in the deep end for about a year after his loss to zane in 79. Since obviously volume is responsable for almost all of the great physiques today and back then, I think that there are important aspects of both that we can use; alternating the two methods for example, works well, but we are all different so whatever works for YOU in the end is right, be it volume or HIT.
Mr.HeavyDuty
New member
Counterpoint #1-Tendons and ligaments are allowed MUCH more time to recover with 96-120 hours between workouts as opposed to the daily grind of set after set that leads to joint and ligament tissue breakdown. This practice was put to the test by myself, as well as my numerous training clients. Zero injuries incurred from HIT.
Counterpoint #2-If you are sitting around not watching your diet then you will be a fat piece of shit on any routine. This routine is designed for optimum mass, Mentzer stresses the reduction of carbs and calories on off workout days. Too much cardio is the only issue with the Heavy Duty, as it is with ANY mass routine.
Counterpoint #3-Heavy Duty is not based on the premise of a one rep maximum on any compound movement. You should read the book, you are printing misinformation here. Heavy duty is not based on just strength, it is based on size through strength via the Heavy Duty philosophy. Which has nothing to do with ORM, Read the book.
Mike did have his issues, but he deserves credit for helping revolutionize HIT. Ask Zane who helped him reach his "zen" when it comes to developing his calves back in 79. I believe that Mike had the best physique of the late seventies and especially 80 when he clearly crushed the competition and was screwed by the system. Let's not forget that volume has also been responsible for the many great failures as well when it comes to physique development. Remember that the greats of the 70's were drug induced and were able to grow regardless of their sets and reps. Mike, Ray, Viator, Yates were all able to develop their physiques to greatness using this method. Some of the greatest physiques ever!! However, I do agree that both styles offer their benefits in moderation. I myself have found Heavy Duty to be FAR superior to any other training regimen.
Counterpoint #2-If you are sitting around not watching your diet then you will be a fat piece of shit on any routine. This routine is designed for optimum mass, Mentzer stresses the reduction of carbs and calories on off workout days. Too much cardio is the only issue with the Heavy Duty, as it is with ANY mass routine.
Counterpoint #3-Heavy Duty is not based on the premise of a one rep maximum on any compound movement. You should read the book, you are printing misinformation here. Heavy duty is not based on just strength, it is based on size through strength via the Heavy Duty philosophy. Which has nothing to do with ORM, Read the book.
Mike did have his issues, but he deserves credit for helping revolutionize HIT. Ask Zane who helped him reach his "zen" when it comes to developing his calves back in 79. I believe that Mike had the best physique of the late seventies and especially 80 when he clearly crushed the competition and was screwed by the system. Let's not forget that volume has also been responsible for the many great failures as well when it comes to physique development. Remember that the greats of the 70's were drug induced and were able to grow regardless of their sets and reps. Mike, Ray, Viator, Yates were all able to develop their physiques to greatness using this method. Some of the greatest physiques ever!! However, I do agree that both styles offer their benefits in moderation. I myself have found Heavy Duty to be FAR superior to any other training regimen.
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