Long Esters/ Short Esters There's Not As Much Difference As You Think

[Nelson Montana]

For anyone contemplating a short cycle, (4-6 weeks) there is no need to go crazy worrying about which esters will work. Any oral (which is imperitive with a short cycle) is essentially short acting so whatever injectable you use is almost irrelevant.

In other words, if your last shot of, let's say , Primmo was at the start of week 6, you're still pretty much on your way toward being out of an enhanced environment within 10 days or so...so what's the big deal?

As for the "long esters take weeks to kick in belief"...well, I've never known that to be true , nor is there any scientiifc evidence to support it. Proof is the fact that a sinle shot of test will elevate T levels in the bloodstream with an hour or two -- so, it's working from day one.

So for those contemplating a short cycle, don't think you have to use testosterone propionate but can't use Decca simply because there are fragments of metabolites barely active for weeks afterward. In the end, it won't matter and you'll have to take the proper steps toward recovery.

 

[Mrpumped]

I personally believe that if you're going to cycle then do it right. Short esters do kick in quicker than longer esters, hence their names. Cycles should be at least 10 weeks to see some real benefits. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I personally believe that if you're going to cycle then do it right. Short esters do kick in quicker than longer esters, hence their names. Cycles should be at least 10 weeks to see some real benefits. Just my 2 cents.

Not really. The term "short" is more about the duration that it's active, not how fast it works.

10 weeks for "real" benifits? Sorry, but there are thousands of examples that contradict that belief. If you like 10 weeks, that's fine, but in many, if not most cases, gains begin to diminish after two months.

 

[Triple J]

yes they are active from the start

re: PCT however, timing of PCT is important and the ester, its dose, and the timing of its last injection will impact when and how to start PCT

 

[Nelson Montana]

yes they are active from the start

re: PCT - post cycle therapy - however, timing of PCT is important and the ester, its dose, and the timing of its last injection will impact when and how to start PCT

True, but even that may not need to be that exact. In other words, has anyone's PC T gone all wrong because they started a few day too soon?

 

[layinback]

For anyone contemplating a short cycle, (4-6 weeks) there is no need to go crazy worrying about which esters will work. Any oral (which is imperitive with a short cycle) is essentially short acting so whatever injectable you use is almost irrelevant.

In other words, if your last shot of, let's say , Primmo was at the start of week 6, you're still pretty much on your way toward being out of an enhanced environment within 10 days or so...so what's the big deal?

As for the "long esters take weeks to kick in belief"...well, I've never known that to be true , nor is there any scientiifc evidence to support it. Proof is the fact that a sinle shot of test will elevate T levels in the bloodstream with an hour or two -- so, it's working from day one.

So for those contemplating a short cycle, don't think you have to use testosterone propionate but can't use Decca simply because there are fragments of metabolites barely active for weeks afterward. In the end, it won't matter and you'll have to take the proper steps toward recovery.

i have done 3 "short cycles" and got fantastic results.i did not lose my gains after 2 months. i kept a great deal and most of the strength.
couple examples:
week 1-6 sustanon 250
week 1-4 anadrol 50
awesome little cycle contrary to popular belief kept approx 6lb's!

week 1-4 reforvit B 75 mg eod
week 1-4 test cyp 300 mg
i put on about 20 lb and kept about half!

anavar (BTG) 40mg ed week 1-6
winstrol 50 ed week 2-6
clenbuterol 120 mcg ed last two weeks.

i got strong, hard and ripped on this one. btw i put on lean muscle mass.
when i started back weight training 11 years ago i weighed 170 now i am 240 with single digit bf. i have pics in my gallery. this was accomplished without "massive cycles" i have never exceeded 600 mg a week, oral and inject combined. not judging those that do, i have not found it necessary as i do not compete.

 

[raider187]

Nelson, I'm very interested in this... First let me say thanks for posting this. I recently made a post similar, but got no hits.


Let me make sure I have this straight.

If you were to use a dose of 250mg Tes-t En has an example... Is the ester what regulates the release of T into your body? Or does the ester prevent the body from breaking it down quickly? I think this is confusing to alot of people.


You said your T levels would go up right away, does the ester have any bearing on how much your body will use / bio avalibility?

Thanks Again... Raider187

 

[rockstar6181]

id also like to hear how test e could be used in a short cycle

 

[holy ghost]

layinback that is cool shit bro

have you ran any longer ones if so explain

 

[layinback]

layinback that is cool shit bro

have you ran any longer ones if so explain

yes, i have ran 7 cycles at 10- 16 weeks. lots of test, dbol or winstrol combo. i will be runnin hgh 4iu 4 months with 300 mg test e for 12-16 wks next cycle. also want to run primo. i havent done it but sounds like my kind of drug. man i respond like a motherfucker to the juice. i would like to try a BIG cycle at least once, just to see what it does to me. when i get ready ,i will definitely check wwith you guys for advice. i have a local guy so i can get anything i need.

 

[layinback]

layinback that is cool shit bro

have you ran any longer ones if so explain

yes, i have ran 7 cycles at 10- 16 weeks. lots of test, dbol or winstrol combo. i will be runnin hgh 4iu 4 months with 300 mg test e for 12-16 wks next cycle. also want to run primo. i havent done it but sounds like my kind of drug. man i respond like a motherfucker to the juice. i would like to try a BIG cycle at least once, just to see what it does to me. when i get ready ,i will definitely check wwith you guys for advice. i have a local guy so i can get anything i need.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson, I'm very interested in this... First let me say thanks for posting this. I recently made a post similar, but got no hits.


Let me make sure I have this straight.

If you were to use a dose of 250mg Tes-t En has an example... Is the ester what regulates the release of T into your body? Or does the ester prevent the body from breaking it down quickly? I think this is confusing to alot of people.


You said your T levels would go up right away, does the ester have any bearing on how much your body will use / bio avalibility?

Thanks Again... Raider187

Good question. Anthony may know more on the science of this but my estimation that esters just keep the compound active. In essense, the "best" ester would be one which breaks down the slowest, which is why I've never been attracted to prop. Sure, it works in minutes as opposed to hours but it's gone in 2 days as opposed to 10 days. I never understood the appeal of that. You do the math. It's simply not as good.

Orals are active about 12 hours , but are far more assimiable within that time than injectables. Compare 350 mgs of dball a week to 350 mgs of test a week. No contest. So when it comes to "short" compounds, orals make the most sense. Otherwise, don't bother.

Bottom line; these drugs don't stay active for very long so arguments about shorter and longer are viryually moot.

 

[Triple J]

the half life of a long ester leads to a much longer residual level in your system it can take 4-6 weeks to clear, and the higher the dose the more significant this will be in its inhibitory effects

 

[cadey]

Proof is the fact that a single shot of test will elevate T levels in the bloodstream with an hour or two -- so, it's working from day one.

i was thinking the same thing. at the end of the day its in your body so why should it take weeks to kick in.

 

[Nelson Montana]

the half life of a long ester leads to a much longer residual level in your system it can take 4-6 weeks to clear, and the higher the dose the more significant this will be in its inhibitory effects

Mmmm, not really...in regard to anabolism. For example, Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - is detectable for months after your last shot, so "technically" it's still in your system. But it sure as hell isn't having an "effect" in terms of creating increased muscle growth.

True, if you're taking 1000 mgs of any compound, it will still be doing "something" 10-14 days later but the increased supression from a high dose (and the previous high dosages which are no longer active) will even it out to an extent.

All in all, it's splitting hairs. 2 weeks (give or take a few days) after your last shot, you're essentially "out", no matter what you use.

 

[Mavafanculo]

For anyone contemplating a short cycle, (4-6 weeks) there is no need to go crazy worrying about which esters will work. Any oral (which is imperitive with a short cycle) is essentially short acting so whatever injectable you use is almost irrelevant.

In other words, if your last shot of, let's say , Primmo was at the start of week 6, you're still pretty much on your way toward being out of an enhanced environment within 10 days or so...so what's the big deal?

As for the "long esters take weeks to kick in belief"...well, I've never known that to be true , nor is there any scientiifc evidence to support it. Proof is the fact that a sinle shot of test will elevate T levels in the bloodstream with an hour or two -- so, it's working from day one.

So for those contemplating a short cycle, don't think you have to use testosterone propionate but can't use Decca simply because there are fragments of metabolites barely active for weeks afterward. In the end, it won't matter and you'll have to take the proper steps toward recovery.

The long esters release the active compound into the system slower, so 100 mg bound in enan might be released 20 1st day, /15/10 etc, bound in pr.opionate 60/40 (broad example).

so while a single shot of any ester will be active from day one, more is active on day 1 with a shorter ester than a longer ester.

this based on conventional wisdom and the roid calcul;ator (google for the link - i lost it)

 

[Nelson Montana]

The long esters release the active compound into the system slower, so 100 mg bound in enan might be released 20 1st day, /15/10 etc, bound in testosterone propionate 60/40 (broad example).

so while a single shot of any ester will be active from day one, more is active on day 1 with a shorter ester than a longer ester.

this based on conventional wisdom and the roid calcul;ator (google for the link - i lost it)

Precicely my original point. Orals do the same exact thing. But just because the release of enth is slower it just means there isn't as much of a "spike" , it does not mean it isn't working until "weeks" later.

 

[Triple J]

lets take a conservative estimate of half life at 5 days for enanthate (of course for deca or eq undeca it is longer). for a single shot of 500mg, after 2 weeks there will still be about 65mg. floating around in your system. not likely an anabolic level but enough to keep you suppressed. now if you also add in the residuals from prior weeks 500mg. dosage, you will see that after two weeks time most people will still have at least 100mg still waiting to be released. then consider many cycles utilize higher dosages than 500mg. so you can see that two weeks is usually premature to expect any real recovery. you may want to run some hcg at that point to "prime the pump", however, regardless of when you like to start PCT, do not expect "real" recovery to start much before 4-6 weeks after the last long ester shot. whereas for prop the "real" recovery can begin after 2-3 weeks tops. this difference is very significant for PCT planning and blood testing purposes IMHO

the roid calculator will illustrate this perfectly for anyone "math challenged" who wants to see a graph or whatever.

 

[Pump2356]

For anyone contemplating a short cycle, (4-6 weeks) there is no need to go crazy worrying about which esters will work. Any oral (which is imperitive with a short cycle) is essentially short acting so whatever injectable you use is almost irrelevant.

In other words, if your last shot of, let's say , Primmo was at the start of week 6, you're still pretty much on your way toward being out of an enhanced environment within 10 days or so...so what's the big deal?

As for the "long esters take weeks to kick in belief"...well, I've never known that to be true , nor is there any scientiifc evidence to support it. Proof is the fact that a sinle shot of test will elevate T levels in the bloodstream with an hour or two -- so, it's working from day one.

So for those contemplating a short cycle, don't think you have to use testosterone propionate but can't use Decca simply because there are fragments of metabolites barely active for weeks afterward. In the end, it won't matter and you'll have to take the proper steps toward recovery.

I agree here, I took only 250mg of enanthate every 5th day and strength , recovery time, and weight came within days and by the second week I had a lot more muscle , not bloat. By the 7-8 week I didn't feel the test working as much and gains really slowed down by the 9th week and ended my cycle. I was using a real pharm company's enanthate produced in athns greece(norma hellas) .

 

[Nelson Montana]

lets take a conservative estimate of half life at 5 days for enanthate (of course for Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - -Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - or Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - undeca it is longer). for a single shot of 500mg, after 2 weeks there will still be about 65mg. floating around in your system. not likely an anabolic level but enough to keep you suppressed. now if you also add in the residuals from prior weeks 500mg. dosage, you will see that after two weeks time most people will still have at least 100mg still waiting to be released. then consider many cycles utilize higher dosages than 500mg. so you can see that two weeks is usually premature to expect any real recovery. you may want to run some HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - at that point to "prime the pump", however, regardless of when you like to start PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - , do not expect "real" recovery to start much before 4-6 weeks after the last long ester shot. whereas for testosterone propionate the "real" recovery can begin after 2-3 weeks tops. this difference is very significant for PCT planning and blood testing purposes IMHO

the roid calculator will illustrate this perfectly for anyone "math challenged" who wants to see a graph or whatever.

I never said you were "recovered" 2 weeks later, you're just not really that "enhanced" at that point. Either way, it's not a big deal. So a 4 week cycle is really a five and a half week cycle. That's still well within safe duration time and would be considered "short." And again, starting PC T a week early isn't going to hurt.

Never heard of the "roid calculator. Sounds funny. But maybe not a bad idea if it's correct. The truth is, 95% of the questions (and misconceptions) addressed on this and other forums can be answered with some simple calculations.

 

[jacshelb]

The long esters release the active compound into the system slower, so 100 mg bound in enan might be released 20 1st day, /15/10 etc, bound in pr.opionate 60/40 (broad example).

so while a single shot of any ester will be active from day one, more is active on day 1 with a shorter ester than a longer ester.

this based on conventional wisdom and the roid calcul;ator (google for the link - i lost it)

100% on the money. So, consider this when doing a short cycle. Because, yes, aas such as prop will "kick in" quicker as there is more drug being released more quickly. We're not "building up" a max dose as can happen during a long cycle. And, obviously, prop is going to be out of your system quicker, which makes it ideal for short cycles.

But, note that I said "ideal." As Nelson stated, at some level it does come down to splitting hairs. Just be reasonable with what and when you take it and you probably won't notice a huge difference in results.

Personally, I like feeling like I'm doing the absolute best I can for my goals. I like short cycles and also don't have any problems using prop and tren. So, it's nice for me to think that what I'm doing is working within the best time frame for my type of cycle. Little 5-8 week cycles of moderate dose prop and tren and I'm a happy camper. But, to each his own. Read, experiment, and definately think and decide for yourself.


Jacob

 

[Nelson Montana]

100% on the money. So, consider this when doing a short cycle. Because, yes, anabolic androgenic steroids such as testosterone propionate will "kick in" quicker as there is more drug being released more quickly. We're not "building up" a max dose as can happen during a long cycle. And, obviously, testosterone propionate is going to be out of your system quicker, which makes it ideal for short cycles.

But, note that I said "ideal." As Nelson stated, at some level it does come down to splitting hairs. Just be reasonable with what and when you take it and you probably won't notice a huge difference in results.

Personally, I like feeling like I'm doing the absolute best I can for my goals. I like short cycles and also don't have any problems using testosterone propionate and trenbolone. So, it's nice for me to think that what I'm doing is working within the best time frame for my type of cycle. Little 5-8 week cycles of moderate dose testosterone propionate and trenbolone and I'm a happy camper. But, to each his own. Read, experiment, and definately think and decide for yourself.


Jacob

Well said.