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Ledhead Unleashed!

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So am I :D!!! This is one thread that has been the most informative and educating of all of EF threads IMO. Let's keep this going Led buddy, miss our interactions!!!

MA

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness
 
Controlling estrogen without an AI.​


Learn how to cycle correctly.

Start your doses low then up your doses after adaption occurs, which is “normally” about a month. I.e. Week 1-4 300 mgs Test, then after four weeks up it 300 mgs to 600 mgs a week for the duration. This will prevent your system from being overloaded with too much test, or other steroids that aromatize. When the body is overloaded with too much testosterone, or any other aromatizing steroids at one time it cannot utilize and absorb the hormone correctly and it will indeed aromatize into estrogen at a fast rate. The shutdown of normal testicular production of testosterone enables estrogen to saturate testosterone receptors in the hypothalamus in the brain therefore reducing the signal sent to the pituitary gland. This in return reduces the secretion of luteinizing hormone, which is necessary for the gonads to produce testosterone.
Over usage of testosterone increases estrogen production, which leads to estrogen to attach even stronger to the estrogen receptors.

Consequently, this is where you get the bloating and the gyno and the weird side effects that accompany with high estrogen levels.
By gradually increasing dosages the body will adjust to the hormone and utilize it accordingly via biological adaption and will utilize estrogen correctly, which we all know a little estrogen is needed to grow. Through my experiences this dosing strategy is the best way to keep a hormonal balance between both hormones and enable a person to avoid using AIs, which are counterproductive, which I will discuss later in the post.

Don’t cycle when body fat is too high.

Now, who determines when someone’s body fat is too high to cycle? Who really knows? Imo, a person should not cycle if their body fat is higher than 12%.

First, high endogenous estrogen levels in men come from high aromatase activity. Aromatase is the enzyme that converts androstenedione and testosterone into estrone and estradiol. Aromatase is found most prevalently in fat cells, hence the more body fat a man has, the more aromatase hence the more estrogen. When a person who has a high levels of endogenous estrogen and adds an exogenous drug that aromatizes, that person is just going to raise his estrogen levels even more and more than likely just get fatter (increase fat cells).

Moreover, excess body fat, will likely cause a spike in estrogen and return lower testosterone levels. Consequently, you are worse off than when you began the cycle because you added fat and lowered your testosterone levels. I noticed this problem is prevalent on these boards. These are the two main reasons estrogen gets out-of-control. There are other factors that contribute to raising estrogen: poor diet, insulin sensitivity (eating too many carbs). I take slin so I have to eat carbs but I recommend you guys to get with RickRock about his carb manipulation tactics because I read some of his ideas and I liked what I read, hence he can help you with controlling estrogen in that manner.

Why AIs are counterproductive.

Using an aromatase inhibitor, estrogen levels still remain low, as we are actively preventing the body from doing what it's trying to do. That means the body will keep signaling for more estrogen while waiting for the testosterone levels to reduce. There's truth that aromatase inhibitors make the body want to produce MORE aromatase, since it's not seeing the estrogen production increase that it's looking for. There's also potential for ending up with too little estrogen. Both of these scenarios can result in a rebound type effect where once the aromatase inhibitor is stopped, the body stays in overdrive trying to make estrogen, which cause levels to spike (Pubmed).

In conclusion, try to dose correctly, don’t cycle when BF is high, eat clean, do cardio, and keep hydrated. This protocol should keep estrogen checked and enable one to avoid AIs, which are indeed counterproductive.
 
Prolactin

Prolactin is a peptide hormone of 199 amino acids that is similar in structure to growth hormone. Prolactin is produced in the anterior pituitary in cells called lactotropes. Prolactin is secreted in an episodic fashion throughout the day. Its secretion is inhibited by dopamine and stimulated by estrogen, stress, TRH, and other factors such as suckling and nipple manipulation. Prolactin acts through prolactin receptors present on the surface of cells. In the human, these receptors are stimulated by GH and prolactin with equal potency. Prolactin initiates and maintains lactation in the estrogen primed breast. Prolactin is not a growth factor in breast tissue which is why it is necessary for breast tissue to be primed by the growth promoting action of estrogen in order for prolactin to exert its effects. Even so, lactation is prevented in the presence of high levels of estrogen and progesterone, such as those that exist in pregnancy, and lactation only proceeds with a drop in estrogen/progesterone levels post delivery. Prolactin inhibits gonadotropin secretion and therefore suppresses the hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis and the production of testosterone (PubMed).

Progesterone

Progesterone is a steroid hormone that binds to intracellular progesterone receptors that act in the nucleus of cells. Progesterone is produced in males by the adrenal glands and males have the same plasma level of progesterone as women do during the follicular phase of the menstrual cycle. There are actually two progesterone receptors. A functional receptor and a nonfunctional receptor that acts to suppress the activity of the functional receptor. Progesterone antagonizes the effect of estrogen by reducing estrogen receptor levels. This is exemplified by the use of progestins to fight estrogen responsive breast cancer. Progesterone has a potent suppressive effect on gonadotropin secretion and has been used as a contraceptive agent in men (PubMed).

As you can see Prolactin and Progesterone are two entirely different hormones, which should not be confused with each other, and they are constantly being confused with one another on this board.

There is no evidence that controlling prolactin will prevent or treat gynecomastia. Many of the issues that are being attributed to prolactin can be explained through other mechanisms. While reducing prolactin may help with reduced libido and shutdown due to AAS, the potential risks involved with using dopaminergics to reduce prolactin levels probably outweighs the benefits. If estrogen is controlled during a cycle, then prolactin is unlikely to be elevated and unlikely to cause a problem.

Check estrogen and Prolactin will be checked

For the people who insist on automatically inserting dopamine agonists when running 19-Nors to control prolactin, think again because it is a real simple solution. Check estrogen and prolactin will be checked, it’s a biological certainty.

Dopamine agonists have entirely too many side effects that can be so easily avoided by just following the estrogen protocol.

Testosterone replacement-induced hyperprola... [Ann Clin Biochem. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI
Prolactin and Male Fertility: The Long and Short Feedback Regulation
 
Last edited:
muscleaddiction said:
So am I :D!!! This is one thread that has been the most informative and educating of all of EF threads IMO. Let's keep this going Led buddy, miss our interactions!!!

MA

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness
Click to expand...


So you are :). I kinda like this thread myself :). Speaking of missing of interactions, I have a bomb to drop on you, that was dropped on me last week. I will text you tonight...

Glad you stopped by, brotha
 
RickRock13 said:
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on all of those. I am one of the fortunate ones that don't get estrogen sides with aromatizing compounds...at least so far. I know I can get by without an AI just fine, because I've done it enough times, but I usually throw an AI in at least mid-cycle to bring water retention down
Click to expand...


I think the reasons why you don't need an AI most of the time is because you carb manipulate and you stay lean most of the time. I'm quite sure those are two main reasons..
 
ledhead said:
So you are :). I kinda like this thread myself :). Speaking of missing of interactions, I have a bomb to drop on you, that was dropped on me last week. I will text you tonight...

Glad you stopped by, brotha
Click to expand...

Hmmm...making me kind of nervous here, hit me up bro...need to catch up.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness
 
ledhead said:
I think the reasons why you don't need an AI most of the time is because you carb manipulate and you stay lean most of the time. I'm quite sure those are two main reasons..
Click to expand...

As always, great information Led. After what you posted it does make a lot more sense why I have no issues not using an AI.

I also appreciate the mention about my carb manipulation in your information write up as well though I don't really consider it anything special..lol
 
ledhead said:
Don’t cycle when body fat is too high.

Now, who determines when someone’s body fat is too high to cycle? Who really knows? Imo, a person should not cycle if their body fat is higher than 12%.

First, high endogenous estrogen levels in men come from high aromatase activity. Aromatase is the enzyme that converts androstenedione and testosterone into estrone and estradiol. Aromatase is found most prevalently in fat cells, hence the more body fat a man has, the more aromatase hence the more estrogen. When a person who has a high levels of endogenous estrogen and adds an exogenous drug that aromatizes, that person is just going to raise his estrogen levels even more and more than likely just get fatter (increase fat cells).

Moreover, excess body fat, will likely cause a spike in estrogen and return lower testosterone levels. Consequently, you are worse off than when you began the cycle because you added fat and lowered your testosterone levels. I noticed this problem is prevalent on these boards. These are the two main reasons estrogen gets out-of-control. There are other factors that contribute to raising estrogen: poor diet, insulin sensitivity (eating too many carbs). I take slin so I have to eat carbs but I recommend you guys to get with RickRock about his carb manipulation tactics because I read some of his ideas and I liked what I read, hence he can help you with controlling estrogen in that manner.
Click to expand...

Rarely do I offer such praise, but my friend, you deserve it each time and more... The entire write up is significantly impressive but I want to focus and pin point on the quoted above... FINALLY, someone else with the proper knowledge devotes the time and FACTS to explain why taking steroids with excess body fat is such a bad concept... You brought up such excellent points, especially the concept of 12% body fat... Im sorry, but although 15% is not "fat", its not good either and anything over that is just ridiculous... There are VERY FEW exceptions that should use steroids at a body fat that high... I would say 95% at that percentage should steer clear... The exceptions would be power lifters, lineman, etc... Rare and abnormal circumstances... Not only is there the concern of high estrogen conversion, but chances are at that weight that blood pressure, cholesterol, amongst other things are of concern... ALSO, and VERY IMPORTANTLY, at that weight, its shows a complete lack of discipline with training and diet... It shows a half ass effort or half ass knowledge, both of which are extremely detrimental to overall health and success... It is evident that many at that weight are looking for a quick fix that will ultimately result in more problems... There are exceptions, especially people that have been dieting and coming down and for them, they are on the right track and do not fall into that category, but more often that not, it's someone looking for something in the wrong manner... This is a very serious problem, as you pointed out, and what that seems to be more prevalent each and every day... I am so happy that you posted this so that it can resonate to others out there and hopefully they comprehend what is being said and take action on it as opposed to being hard headed or lazy... To really enter this world, an understanding of what you are doing, a dedication to you health, a hard work ethic and a strong self intrinsic motivation need to be present to fully utilize what you are taking and doing... Excellent information bro... Thank you for presenting this to everyone and for being such a great member here...
 
Very informative Bro! You also did an awesome job breaking it down.

Pretty soon, you'll be able to combine your posts in this thread and create a 'best selling' book on Anabolics.
 
super-duty1 said:
Professor Led!!!!!

Sent from my SPH-L900 using EliteFitness
Click to expand...


Lol. Believe it or not! I was a legit prof at a university. I was grandfathered in with a M.A in History. I had to get out because that job was too dangerous :). Does anyone want to know about 20th Century World History or Rise of the Modern World? I'm a self-proclaimed expert in those courses :).
 
I did my first cycle in the late 80's and was taught to always cycle up and down. Everyone did it that way and I can't remember anyone getting Gyno. So it makes great sense to me.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using EliteFitness
 
super-duty1 said:
I did my first cycle in the late 80's and was taught to always cycle up and down. Everyone did it that way and I can't remember anyone getting Gyno. So it makes great sense to me.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using EliteFitness
Click to expand...


You were taught correctly. I had to teach myself, and it makes all the biological sense in the world.

Thanks for supporting the thread.
 
ledhead said:
Lol. Believe it or not! I was a legit prof at a university. I was grandfathered in with a M.A in History. I had to get out because that job was too dangerous :). Does anyone want to know about 20th Century World History or Rise of the Modern World? I'm a self-proclaimed expert in those courses :).
Click to expand...

Does not surprise me! Maybe they have a spot for you in the anatomical sciences department you'd fit right in ;-)

Sent from my SPH-L900 using EliteFitness
 
I have been reading this thread back and fourth and I am learning more and more every time I read it, thanks for posting this information and taking the time to explain to everyone the science behind it. You are becoming a true role model for people on here and I hope to learn more soon bro
 
RickRock13 said:
As always, great information Led. After what you posted it does make a lot more sense why I have no issues not using an AI.

I also appreciate the mention about my carb manipulation in your information write up as well though I don't really consider it anything special..lol
Click to expand...


Thank you! Don't sell yourself short. I read a lot of interesting and creative stuff in your thread, which I can tell it derived from trial and error and coming up with your own assessment instead of emulating someone else to a tee. There is definitely some stuff I'll be stealing from you once I shift gears here in the near future :)
 
dylangemelli said:
Rarely do I offer such praise, but my friend, you deserve it each time and more... The entire write up is significantly impressive but I want to focus and pin point on the quoted above... FINALLY, someone else with the proper knowledge devotes the time and FACTS to explain why taking steroids with excess body fat is such a bad concept... You brought up such excellent points, especially the concept of 12% body fat... Im sorry, but although 15% is not "fat", its not good either and anything over that is just ridiculous... There are VERY FEW exceptions that should use steroids at a body fat that high... I would say 95% at that percentage should steer clear... The exceptions would be power lifters, lineman, etc... Rare and abnormal circumstances... Not only is there the concern of high estrogen conversion, but chances are at that weight that blood pressure, cholesterol, amongst other things are of concern... ALSO, and VERY IMPORTANTLY, at that weight, its shows a complete lack of discipline with training and diet... It shows a half ass effort or half ass knowledge, both of which are extremely detrimental to overall health and success... It is evident that many at that weight are looking for a quick fix that will ultimately result in more problems... There are exceptions, especially people that have been dieting and coming down and for them, they are on the right track and do not fall into that category, but more often that not, it's someone looking for something in the wrong manner... This is a very serious problem, as you pointed out, and what that seems to be more prevalent each and every day... I am so happy that you posted this so that it can resonate to others out there and hopefully they comprehend what is being said and take action on it as opposed to being hard headed or lazy... To really enter this world, an understanding of what you are doing, a dedication to you health, a hard work ethic and a strong self intrinsic motivation need to be present to fully utilize what you are taking and doing... Excellent information bro... Thank you for presenting this to everyone and for being such a great member here...
Click to expand...

You are welcome. And thank you for the praise. I still think you are just giving me credit because I'm Italian :).
 
Idobehigh said:
I have been reading this thread back and fourth and I am learning more and more every time I read it, thanks for posting this information and taking the time to explain to everyone the science behind it. You are becoming a true role model for people on here and I hope to learn more soon bro
Click to expand...


I'm glad you are enjoying the thread. Role model? That's the first time I ever heard anyone say that about me. I'm poignant :)
 
El Hefe said:
Very informative Bro! You also did an awesome job breaking it down.

Pretty soon, you'll be able to combine your posts in this thread and create a 'best selling' book on Anabolics.
Click to expand...


That's the plan. Dylan and I are going to make millions :). I'm glad you are receptive!
 
ledhead said:
Put it to you this way. I'm scheduled to post pictures in the next two weeks for a certain Mod's birthday. I'm sitting at 245 probably 4% BF (don't use calipers) and I'm a little nervous that he will show-up that day posting up pictures, and I'm not trying to be funny. He is sick looking!

Remember, I designed his cycle and coached him the whole way :). Dude is awesome!!!
Click to expand...


Man there is a ton of information in this thread. I can't wait to see these pictures. I will be staying tuned!
 
Don't mean to interrupt but can't post new threads on my phone. Just finishing up a 16 week test e mast e cycle I'm one week away from pct and I tore my bicep wtf should I do?

Sent from my HTC One V using EliteFitness
 
Player9 said:
Don't mean to interrupt but can't post new threads on my phone. Just finishing up a 16 week test e mast e cycle I'm one week away from pct and I tore my bicep wtf should I do?

Sent from my HTC One V using EliteFitness
Click to expand...


You did interrupt. Go see a surgeon, that's what you should do..
 
A bust? All the information that has been given the new knowledge most of us knew nothing about and because he won't post a picture this thread is a bust?
 
bsteele24 said:
IMO yes...


have you read the thread? Post after post with promises of upcoming pics and nothing. I can see why the guys that have been here longer than I are getting frustrated.


There is a lot of info in this thread but the proof is in the puddin'.
Click to expand...

Most of us follow the thread for it's valuable information. Not the hope that we'll get to see a new pic. WTF, thats just weird.

You want a pic, there's one in the opening post of this thread.

'proof is in the puddin'? So, anyone who wants to share factual or valuable information needs to attach a pic for validation.

GTFO
 
I don't want one other person coming on here talking shit. If you respect the knowledge in here, shut the fuck up. If you don't then get the fuck out.

I've deleted some stupid ass posts, now let's keep it respectable in here please. I don't want to give anyone a time out for dumb shit
 
RickRock13 said:
I don't want one other person coming on here talking shit. If you respect the knowledge in here, shut the fuck up. If you don't then get the fuck out.

I've deleted some stupid ass posts, now let's keep it respectable in here please. I don't want to give anyone a time out for dumb shit
Click to expand...

Absolutely... I mean, fucking seriously? Is there whining going on about a pic? Thats fucking creepy... Led forgot more this morning than a lot of you will ever know and hes taken a lot of valuable time to help educate many... That shit has to be some of the weirdest shit ive ever heard... Bitching about a pic? Wtf?? Thats the type of gratitude shown?? Wow
 
SERIOUSLY guys! it's not like he said multiple times anything about postin pics or gave a date he was gonna do it on or anything like that sheesh GROW UP
 
Led you must be 130 lbs since you didnt post pics today. lololol jokes led is swolt for sure
 
RickRock13 said:
I don't want one other person coming on here talking shit. If you respect the knowledge in here, shut the fuck up. If you don't then get the fuck out.

I've deleted some stupid ass posts, now let's keep it respectable in here please. I don't want to give anyone a time out for dumb shit
Click to expand...

+1 I can vouch for his physique. Not sure why these creeps are so needy for pics tho
 
nortex said:
Most of us follow the thread for it's valuable information. Not the hope that we'll get to see a new pic. WTF, thats just weird.

You want a pic, there's one in the opening post of this thread.

'proof is in the puddin'? So, anyone who wants to share factual or valuable information needs to attach a pic for validation.

GTFO
Click to expand...

Thank you for following and appreciating the time and effort I put into this thread.

Umm. it was supposed to be a picture thread for all of us but three of the main characters were unavailable last night. Some people do have lives outside EF; they have husbands, wives, and children, and jobs that are their first priorities. Therefore, it is going to be put off until we can get everyone on here together. I will be gone for 2-3 weeks because I am moving to a different location next week, so when we get to it we get to it.

Moreover, my girlfriend has molar pregnancy. I had to rush her to the ER 3 times the past two days. She can't get out of bed and when she does it's to vomit.

Oh, thank you for reminding me about that picture I already posted, I forgot about it. I challenge anyone on this board to come in here and match it! Lol.

Until then they will have to have a little patience. Or they can stay the fuck out of my thread and go ask someone if they can drink winny or which test is the best. Because this thread was specifically made for people who want to go to the next level and not feed off of someone elses' experience, which is prevalent on these boards. As for me going for my pro card don't count me out just yet :)
 
dylangemelli said:
Absolutely... I mean, fucking seriously? Is there whining going on about a pic? Thats fucking creepy... Led forgot more this morning than a lot of you will ever know and hes taken a lot of valuable time to help educate many... That shit has to be some of the weirdest shit ive ever heard... Bitching about a pic? Wtf?? Thats the type of gratitude shown?? Wow
Click to expand...


Do me favor bro and lock this while I'm gone..
 
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