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Is cardio while cutting a waste?

Y

Yll

New member
Have any of you succesfully reduced your bodyfat to your desired level by just manipulating your nutrition, supplements/gear.
I did a search and found numerous posts on how cardio does nothing as far as burning fat and really only burns calories and hard earned muscle. I tend to be one of those people who agree with this theory. I once spent over 6 months doing AM cardio for an hour on an empty stomach with ECA stacks trying to burn off stubborn fat and was also on a clean low-calorie/low-carb diet and was still very disatisfied with my results.
What I would like to know is if any of you veteran BB's reached your cutting goals without cardio and only nutrition/supplement manipulation and if you agree with this theory.
Ive been training 2 years naturally so I havent much experience cutting besides for one time that didnt work out so well. Ive trained hard and have been eating good. Ive gotten my bodyweight up to 230 and have gained a reasnoble amount of muscle. Of course my b/f is well over 20%. I wanna cut up but dont want to lose all the muscle since I will be doing it naturally.
I know this thread belongs in the training forum but I posted it here since there is other topics revolving around the subject.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated
 
Cardio is good on a cutting cycle for most people(extreme ectomorphs excluded), just dont overdo it. It does tap into muscle a little, but the trade off in fat loss is worth it if it is done correctly. Maybe do a sprint style session(sprint followed by jogging) if you are that worried about a loss in muscle mass.-WULF
 
While on cutting cycles is the only time I do cardio. If you are on a cutting cycle which consists of anabolic steroids you shouldn't be all that worried about the muscle loss from cardio since the AS will more than offset it. Hate to say it man, but it just looks like you are looking for an excuse to be lazy.
 
Depends what your goals are----strict dieting along with gear can get anyone ( i mean anyone) down in the single digits concerning bodyfat....However to get real low close to contest shape, most will not reach this without cardio---For the everyday joe who wants to lose fat while using gear(or cutting phase)like some of you call it, I suggest cardio----There are a couple guys in my gym that do compete and have no problem getting there bodyfat down to around 7- 8% without any cardio what -so- ever.(These guys would look shredded to the everyday joe) But these guys have the diet down, and for them to get lower and into contest shape(4-5%)--they do have to hit cardio---They have been competing for awhile so there muscularity is incredible, which makes there bodyfat seem to appear lower then what it may be.
 
I'll be the first to admit I hate cardio, in fact, i wont even look at a treadmill when I am bulking. Once it is time to drop the fat, cardio is a must for me. As Cubano said if you are using gear than cardio is not going to eat your muscle away. It may inhibit your gains but your not going to shrivel up.
 
I compete at the national level and I can say I never do cardio,you can diet and take gear and get shearded,you will not see a pro bodybuider doing cardio. a pro told me once,if you have enough energy to do cardio then you should be lifting more weights.Try doing dropsets and supersets with only 30 sec. rest between sets,then try doing cardio.true cardio is important to be phsically fit but you can get shreared without it.
 
Mr.G-ville said:
I compete at the national level and I can say I never do cardio,you can diet and take gear and get shearded,you will not see a pro bodybuider doing cardio. a pro told me once,if you have enough energy to do cardio then you should be lifting more weights.Try doing dropsets and supersets with only 30 sec. rest between sets,then try doing cardio.true cardio is important to be phsically fit but you can get shreared without it.
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BULLSHIT-I KNOW 1 OF THE TOP PROS IN THE WORLD AND HE KNOWS ALL OF THE TOP GUYS AND HE TOLD ME THAT FOR AT LEAST 2 WEEKS PRE CONTEST, THEY ALL DO CARDIO-SOME ALOT, SOME A LITTLE
 
El Cubano

I do dread doing cardio just like most people but if improving my physique means doing cardio then im all for it. Laziness is not really the issue. Actually I kind of like the rush I get from some intense cardio. I was just curious to find out how many of you succesfully reached your goals without it and from some posts ive read a few people have done it through manipulating their diet/supplementation/drugs. I do appreciate your opinion and thank you for replying. Im gonna have to bump this up as I am still curious to see what others have to say.
 
diamonddiceclay said:
BULLSHIT-I KNOW 1 OF THE TOP PROS IN THE WORLD AND HE KNOWS ALL OF THE TOP GUYS AND HE TOLD ME THAT FOR AT LEAST 2 WEEKS PRE CONTEST, THEY ALL DO CARDIO-SOME ALOT, SOME A LITTLE
Click to expand...

Sorry but 2 weeks of cardio isnt considered cardio----The everyday Joe isn't going to see much in the change of his body with 2 weeks of cardio-----Some of the top pros your talking about won't even walk up a flight of stairs because they don't want to burn the cals-----A lot of them rely on heavy drug use and pin point dieting to get low---The word cardio is more for the mags---peace
 
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Originally posted by BrickGirl
I went from 16% bodyfat to 8.9% bodyfat in 2 months by taking my cardio completly out and changing up my diet and being 100% strict on it...easy as pie
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Posted by Beezers

I'm with her on this. The best change I ever made to my cardio was to drop it. I've gone from 10%bf to my competition ready 5% without cardio. I used avidly do cardio even though I have always wanted to be as massive as possible. For some reason I couldn't shake the "brainwashing" that cardio was the best way to a better body composition. After working with a seasoned competitor at my gym I decided to drop the hours of mindless cardio and get on with my quest for mass. I was terrified of gaining pounds upon pounds of fat...just rolloing of me like jelly on a doughnut. What actually happened was I lost fat after dropping cardio. Cardio was limiting my ability to add muscle mass, so the more mass I added 1) the faster my metabolism got 2) the better my definition became. I still rely solely on DIET and the iron to contol my body composition. I beleive cardio is just too catabolic and counter-productive if you're a "physique artist".



Report this post
 
I'll endorse my quoted post above. It's all about diet...umm...and drugs(but that's top secret). Cardio burns muscle which lowers metabolism which impedes fat loss and also takes away from deffinition. If you want to be a cardio warrior run a marathon...If you want to be a bodybuilder put every once of your days energy into your weight training. As Mr. G-ville said...if you have energy to do both cardio AND weight training you're not hitting the iron hard enough. In that sense cardio also robs you of a great deal of intensity during your weight training. It cuts into recouperation and drains recovery resources. The Jane Fonda cardio craze of the 70's belongs in the past.
 
Beezers said:
I'll endorse my quoted post above. It's all about diet...umm...and drugs(but that's top secret). Cardio burns muscle which lowers metabolism which impedes fat loss and also takes away from deffinition. If you want to be a cardio warrior run a marathon...If you want to be a bodybuilder put every once of your days energy into your weight training. As Mr. G-ville said...if you have energy to do both cardio AND weight training you're not hitting the iron hard enough. In that sense cardio also robs you of a great deal of intensity during your weight training. It cuts into recouperation and drains recovery resources. The Jane Fonda cardio craze of the 70's belongs in the past.
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for any 1 with a slow metabolism, cardio is the way to lose fat
 
Originally posted by BrickGirl
I went from 16% bodyfat to 8.9% bodyfat in 2 months by taking my cardio completly out and changing up my diet and being 100% strict on it...easy as pie


Hmmm. I bet if cardio was added ALONG with the new diet, she
would have gotten down to maybe 6 or 7%. I do cardio 3x a
week. I have no problem with burning muscle. If you over do
the cardio, you'll lose muscle. I think on cutting cycle, 45 min at
the MOST. When I am bulking, I will do 25 min. That's it. I don't
think there is a legit reason to NOT do any cardio. It has to
be done.....PERIOD!
g
 
diamonddiceclay said:
for any 1 with a slow metabolism, cardio is the way to lose fat
Click to expand...


eating small meals every 1 1/2-2 1/2 hrs will do much more for someone with a slow metabolism then cardio could ever do.....
 
Wombat said:



eating small meals every 1 1/2-2 1/2 hrs will do much more for someone with a slow metabolism then cardio could ever do.....
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that's your opinion-eating that way is what I do and It does not help as much as cardio
 
Cardio

Wombat is right on but then again this just goes back to personal preference doesn't it? I mean everyone reacts differently to certain aspects of training. You couldn't compare similarities to a person training on gear vs. not on gear, I think it would apply with Cardio as well.

It seems everything you read says in order to loose bf you MUST do cardio, I dont buy it. I struggle right around 10% but Iv recently conformed my diet with positive results. Everytime I start cardio in my routine I loose muscle mass...enough of that SHIT, I'm going to work my diet to a "T" and lift like a motherfu--er. Iv made some other supplement moves and adjusted my fat intake as well, I'm breaking thru to my 6 pack and that's all that matters.

6'3 210 10%bf (no gear) I'm getting there :D
 
Anyone who thinks cardio is "required" in order to get ripped needs to start thinking outside of the box and quit reading muscle and fitness. It is absolutely possible to get to a low bodyfat from diet and weight training alone. If you want to do cardio then go for it, but don't preach about how you won't get lean without it. I have at best an average metabolism and I am able to cut without cardio.

The biggest help cardio does is to burn calories in general, not specifically fat calories. You get on a treadmill for 30 mins you burn maybe 2-300 calories max. Not all of that will be fat anyways, however it will still help your caloric deficit. I find just being extra active during the day is just as good as cardio. Use the stairs instead of an elevator, walk the long way around your workplace, stand instead of sitting when possible, etc... You can burn the same amount of calories as you would have in your 30 min treadmill session but you'll burn it all day long so it won't necessarily cause muscle catabolism as badly.

If you really want to get a benefit out of cardio then don't do the low intensity crap. Do the HIIT type training and do sprints. At least studies have shown that this will boost metabolism for hours after your sprinting and will help boost natural GH release. I always see the same fools in the gym on the treadmill day in and day out, looking the same day in and day out, while I lift my ass off, get stronger and lose the bodyfat.
 
CARDIO

I have to agree with Mr. G...ville as well. When I do high intensity short resting sets I drip sweat as if I was on a treadmill. I try to take no more then 30 seconds beetween sets and always try to dropset and superset as much as possible. I beleive if you dont build a good sweat weight training then you are not doing it properly. Most bodybuilders recommend doing 120-130(Heart Rate)low intensity cardio. I wouldnt be surprised if my heart rate measured well over 120 when I weight train. I think at this level you will get all the cardio you need whether you are natural or are on gear and will still be able to put your heart and soul into the iron. Im going to cut the cardio during my next cutting phase. Thank you for all your responses.
 
diamonddiceclay said:
when bulking, cardio is not a good idea-it is counterproductive
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are you kidding me....You think that doing 20-30 min of light cardio during bulking will hender your gains ???? Thats Funny....
 
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Originally posted by muscleup

are you kidding me....You think that doing 20-30 min of light cardio during bulking will hender your gains ???? Thats Funny....
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What's even funnier is thinking that 20-30 min of light cardio during a bulking cycle will actually help you not gain as much fat.
 
OK, I see that alot of you guys take tidbits of info and turn it into a "fact based on your own conductive reasoning", so here's my answer....... When cutting I do cardio, but what I do for cardio is something very light, like taking a 30 minute walk or riding the stationary bike with little to no resistance for 30 minutes.

Oh ya, sure there are people who can get to their desired BF without cardio. There are people who can get to their desired BF without gear too. There are people who can get to their desired BF without trying, that's all in genetics. If your BF is high and you want to lower it, you need to burn calories. Now it's true, I am always telling fat boys that they'd burn more calories if they worked out, but I don't tell them to drop their cardio.

I'll just put this out there for you, if you don't want to do cardio because you are afraid of losing muscle, just do a hgh/test/winny/clen cycle and you'll be good to go. With a combo like that you can't go wrong. Try the injectable clen, it works better.
 
Are you telling me that these "fat boys" are doing cardio only and not working out? We all know that lifting weights and dieting is 100x better than dieting and cardio alone. They might as well say goodbye to any muscle mass they currently have as they aren't doing anything to preserve it.

I think the bottom line is that cardio or no cardio, you can get to a low bodyfat %. The key is just how you consider low. 10% is low bodyfat no matter how you cut it and that isn't so low that it's not achievable by the mass population. When you start speaking of 5-6% then you're in a whole new game. However I think the vast majority of people concerned about losing weight aren't shooting for a rediculously low bodyfat number like that so cardio is optional.

However if they're previous couch potatoes and it keeps them busy then so be it. If you live an active lifestyle then you'll burn all the calories you need to in everyday life. If you sit at your job all day long and come home and sit on your ass in the evening then maybe cardio isn't such a bad idea.
 
el cubano said:
OK, I see that alot of you guys take tidbits of info and turn it into a "fact based on your own conductive reasoning", so here's my answer....... When cutting I do cardio, but what I do for cardio is something very light, like taking a 30 minute walk or riding the stationary bike with little to no resistance for 30 minutes.

Oh ya, sure there are people who can get to their desired BF without cardio. There are people who can get to their desired BF without gear too. There are people who can get to their desired BF without trying, that's all in genetics. If your BF is high and you want to lower it, you need to burn calories. Now it's true, I am always telling fat boys that they'd burn more calories if they worked out, but I don't tell them to drop their cardio.

I'll just put this out there for you, if you don't want to do cardio because you are afraid of losing muscle, just do a hgh/test/winny/clen cycle and you'll be good to go. With a combo like that you can't go wrong. Try the injectable clen, it works better.
Click to expand...

You can tell these fat boys to do cardio all day long but in the end, they will still be fat boys----until they bring the cals below maintence and mess around with low carb-high carb days, there fat loss will be min----no subst--for dieting--peace
 
It is a rediculous notion, IMO, to try and lose weight without any cardio.


Perhaps there are proffesional athletes that can achieve a low BF without cardio, but I will guarantee they have spent years learning their bodies and what they need and don't need to become shredded.


Light cardio, 3-5 times a week on an empty stomache first thing in the morning coupled with a good diet will make you lean. That is a fact. Getting cut without cardio is a debate.


Why not pick the fact? You have better odds in something that has already beeen proven time and time again.


My 2 cents
 
guards said:
It is a rediculous notion, IMO, to try and lose weight without any cardio.


Perhaps there are proffesional athletes that can achieve a low BF without cardio, but I will guarantee they have spent years learning their bodies and what they need and don't need to become shredded.


Light cardio, 3-5 times a week on an empty stomache first thing in the morning coupled with a good diet will make you lean. That is a fact. Getting cut without cardio is a debate.


Why not pick the fact? You have better odds in something that has already beeen proven time and time again.


My 2 cents
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Ya its a fact that the diet will make you lean alone but is the cardio really needed. I dont see why if you are one who can manipulate your diet.
 
LAZY

All this crap about if you have enough energy for cardio you didnt lift enough is crap. Lifting and cardio work 2 diffrient pathways, IF you do a heavy chest workout, hardcore, 12-23 sets, 3-5 exercises, and do some abs, unless your a fat peice of shit you should have plenty of energy to do 30mins of cardio.


I would challange anyone to see who could lose more bodyfat in one month, They can lift and diet, I will lift/diet/do cardio and I guarntee I would win. I couldnt do this contest now because im at 9%. But on a good day I wake up at 7am, roll out of bed, do 30-60mins of cardio eat , start my day and goto the gym a few hours later.

You can lax on your diet more when u burn an extra 300-600 Calories. Personally I do 30mins and get around 600cals on the life fitness cross trainer, Im at around 95rpms, but I love that machine. Put in a good MIX tape and roll
 
cardio is good

I personally get mine through a fast walk no running. I have heard that running can burn muscle but don't know if its true. To me it seemed to cause a slight loss. Walking burn fat without burning muscle.
 
diamonddiceclay said:
BULLSHIT-I KNOW 1 OF THE TOP PROS IN THE WORLD AND HE KNOWS ALL OF THE TOP GUYS AND HE TOLD ME THAT FOR AT LEAST 2 WEEKS PRE CONTEST, THEY ALL DO CARDIO-SOME ALOT, SOME A LITTLE
Click to expand...

True dat. One of the top pros works out at my gym and he does some cardio a few weeks prior to competition. It is very low impact, but cardio nonetheless!
 
I'm sorry but I highly doubt doing 30 mins on a cross training machine will burn 600 calories. THIS is the reason people think cardio is so awesome, they totally overestimate caloric expendature. And what's this "lax" diet thing? The whole idea of this post was to say with perfect diet manipulation you can lose fat without cardio. Saying cardio allows you to be lax in your diet totally works against your arguement.

And to the person who said the pros do cardio for the last 2 weeks prior to competition. They've probably been dieting for 16 weeks so how is 2 out of 16 anything to mention? Also most pros are already at a bodyfat that 99.9% of us will ever attain before they begin that cardio. This argument is completely useless.

Face it people, you can get lean without cardio. There is absolutely no question about it. If you have the discipline to nail your diet perfectly then you won't have to do cardio. Weight training and a good diet are all that is needed. If you choose to do it then fine. I don't see why people get so defensive as if to make themselves feel justified for the hours they spend slugging on a machine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing cardio if you choose to do it. However the 30 mins you spend on a machine a couple of days a week will NOT make or break your fat loss plan. If you have to rely on this method to lose fat then you need to take a really hard look at your diet.

If you want to bring up the idea that cardio benefits your cardiovascular system, increases endurace, etc.. then fine. However this thread was only in reference to cardio being used as a fat loss tool.

Also just to bring this up, doing cardio on an empty stomach first thing in the morning isn't always the best thing to do if you're interested in keeping all of your mass. Especially those 60 minute ironman sessions. At least have a quick protein shake before stepping on the treadmill to halt catabolism. It is a known fact that after an all night fast your body is in a catabolic state. Jumping on a treadmill for an hour isn't going to help this situation any.
 
Ok

I disagree, None of us are ever gonna be ronnie coleman, maybe a few of us will be 250 ripped. But To get a nice body and have a good six pack, cardio is neccessary, you can lift weights eat a perfect diet but why not eat good lift, and add some cardio get more benefits, cardio is supposed to make u feel good and it does. Try it
 
Posted by Vageta

I don't see why people get so defensive as if to make themselves feel justified for the hours they spend slugging on a machine.


I was thinking the same thing. The reason many people are so defensive is so they dont look stupid for something they have done(including myself) year after year that was completely unneccesary. I am not trying to examine the cardiovascular benefits of aerobic exercise but am trying to look at its benefits(if any) of decreasing bodyfat for the serious bodybuilder.
Most of us could care less if our heart is being conditioned. I just wanted someone to help me realize that all those wasted AM cardio sessions didnt do jack shit for me and never will. I am amazed at some of the responses I have gotten. Many Top level BB in this forum tend to agree with the "Cardio doesnt burn fat theory". The bottom line is counting your calories right and consuming them with perfect timing combined with an excellent weight training program and supplementation/drugs will get you to your desired level of bodyfat. In additon to that the cardio will do absolutely nothing to lower your bodyfat % unless you have exceeded your maintanence calorie intake and have not properly utilized the timing of your calorie consumption. The drugs and supplements are just an edge to intensify this effect hence leaving cardio machines as nothing but a tool to burn calories or condition the cardiovascular system(Not decrease bodyfat %).
 
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cardio to get lean say 8% no cardio to go on stage yes without a doubt. ripped glutes don't come form diet sorry or heavy exercise it comes form exercise,diet and cardio. can cardio burn muscle? yes without a doubt. i over did my cardio for my last show and came in to lean losing size in my thighs. was i ripped? yup but at the exspense of musscle. now its a high incline moderate speed and 20-25 minutes 3-4 times a week before a show. to me it makes a big difference and helps the diet kick in more. thats just my personal experience.
 
I think the thing we tend to overlook is that our diet goes overlooked when we focus on sweating our ass of on a tredmill. I thinks it's valid to say that someone who is 14% bf and above could stand to do some cardio but when you are around 9% or 10% your pretty cut, granted your not show quality but when you take your shirt off your going to get some looks. It all depends on the person and there goals.

Again, I feel it's your diet that's a key factor when it comes to bf %, Iv learned this first hand.
 
This is simple. I don't understand why there's a debate.

Original poster - you're lazy. Get your ass on the treadmill and JUST FUCKING FIND OUT IF IT BURNS FAT OR NOT!!!! For some people like myself cardio is absolutely necessary - I'm a classic endomorph and made it to about 10% (from ca. 20%) with perfect diet & lifting, but anything further won't happen for me without cardio.

Other people on this thread have different genetics/fat storage patterns/metabolisms that require them to do no cardio.

There is no single answer. Get off the couch and spend a few weeks adding cardio to your regimen but changing nothing else and find out for yourself.
 
i can't say if cardio is good or bad but i can tell you my own experience!

i'm 6'4" and 32. about two years ago i did 24 weeks of cardio and lifting without gear...i did 45 min. 3-4 times a week on the stairmaster...on a higher than average setting. after the 24th week i lost a total of 4 pounds...i don't know how much muscle i gained but i'm just an average guy at the gym. i will say that my pant size did not go down at all. it was frustrating and for ME think it was a waste of time. i would lift for an hour and then hit the stairmaster. when it was all said and done i weighed in at 220#...don't forget...with no gear.

with my first two cycles using a mild amount of test, i would lift four times a week, eat like crap and notice that my waist size went down while gaining size up top with no cardio. at one point on my first cycle, i was up to 238#.

on my last cycle i didn't get over 225#...i wasn't disciplined very well with the gear or working out...had some personal problems.

since then i've totally changed my diet but i wouldn't say it's ridiculous though. i just stay away from the sweets, eat at better times, eat less bread, eat more chicken and try to eat something every 2-3 hours...like a low-fat granola bar or no fat yogurt. when i started this diet i was about 215# and now i'm down to 195#!!! i haven't been under 200# since high school. i've gone from a 38 waist to 34 in jeans.

for ME, dieting really works if you stick with it...once you get use to it, it becomes a way of life. the cardio didn't do much for me and i won't do it with my next cycle...test/eq/winny/liquidex.

this is my experience and i'm not pro or con on the cardio debate...just my .02 cents worth.
 
DaMan is correct. Everyone is different but he brings up my point. He is a classic endomorph and he was able to get down to 10% bodyfat without lifting. To me that is considered pretty damn lean, at least compared to the rest of the 99% of the population. When you want to get lower numbers you may have to do some cardio depending on your diet. This guy is an endomorph and represents a worst case scenario in terms of ease of fat loss. If you aren't an endomorph then you should be able to get much lower bodyfat that him without doing cardio.

The main problem I see here is people assume because THEY can't get lean without cardio they assume everyone else can't. If an endomorph can get to 10% with diet and weightlifting alone then just about anyone can unless they have an underlying medical problem.

Throw in an anabolic compound like Fina or Anavar and you most likely would be able to get all the way down to your goal without cardio. I'm assuming DaMan was doing this naturally.
 
I read somewhere..can't recall the source as of yet. However it stated that when doing cardio the fat/muscle burning ratio was 3/1..when anabolics were in use the ratio was bumped up to 8/1. Meaning for every 8 pounds of fat dropped a pound of muscle would be lost. Ofcourse this is not a given for every individual, alot of things would factor in on this, however an interesting study without a doubt.
 
DaMan said:
This is simple. I don't understand why there's a debate.

Original poster - you're lazy. Get your ass on the treadmill and JUST FUCKING FIND OUT IF IT BURNS FAT OR NOT!!!! For some people like myself cardio is absolutely necessary - I'm a classic endomorph and made it to about 10% (from ca. 20%) with perfect diet & lifting, but anything further won't happen for me without cardio.

Other people on this thread have different genetics/fat storage patterns/metabolisms that require them to do no cardio.

There is no single answer. Get off the couch and spend a few weeks adding cardio to your regimen but changing nothing else and find out for yourself.
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I am the original poster and have done numerous hours of cardio. I speak from my unsuccessful experiences with it. You say it took cardio to get you below 10%. I say bullshit. It was all in your diet. You say your diet was perfect. Now thats debatable. The only reason the cardio may have helped is because your diet wasnt perfect and was not manipulated properly. For example: If you wanted to go say 500 calories below maintanence which is a normal cutting diet and lets say your required calorie intake was 2400 calories. If you were to divide this into 8 meal portions which equals 300 calories(clean) per meal eaten every 2 hours I highly doubt your cardio sessions would even compare to the metabolic activity rate this type of diet would produce. Dont use cardio as your scapegoat for your inability to properly utilize your diet and on top of it label me a lazy ass. All this endomorph, ectomorph stuff is bull shit. The only difference with this body type stuff is the rate at which one loses or gains fat or muscle. Some gain and lose faster. Some slower. Either body type can train their metabolism to become a fat burning machine. Im not trying to bash you but you saying there is no debate about this topic is one-track minded and if what you do works for you then thats great. Telling yourself and others that cardio is our only option is just limiting our capabilities and your own.
 
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Yll said:


I speak from my unsuccessful experiences with it. You say it took cardio to get you below 10%. I say bullshit. It was all in your diet. You say your diet was perfect. Now thats debatable. The only reason the cardio may have helped is because your diet wasnt perfect and was not manipulated properly. For example: If you wanted to go say 500 calories below maintanence which is a normal cutting diet and lets say your required calorie intake was 2400 calories. If you were to divide this into 8 meal portions which equals 300 calories(clean) per meal eaten every 2 hours I highly doubt the your cardio sessions would even compare to the metabolic activity rate this type of diet would produce. Dont use cardio as your scapegoat for your inability to properly utilize your diet and on top of it label me a lazy ass. All this endomorph, ectomorph stuff is bull shit. The only difference with this body type stuff is the rate at which one loses or gains fat or muscle. Some gain and lose faster. Some slower. Either body type can train their metabolism to become a fat burning machine. Im not trying to bash you but you saying there is no debate about this topic is one-track minded and if what you do works for you then thats great. Telling yourself and others that cardio is our only option is just limiting our capabilities and your own.
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If you're so convinced that cardio is futile why did you post this in the first place? Ever consider the fact that maybe you just don't know how to properly manipulate your cardio?

You seem to know very little about thyroid and metabolism manipulation, no offense. Dieting down reaches a point of diminishing returns for many of us - I can have a deficit of 2000kcal a day if I want by eating 500kcal and nothing else. Ya really think that's gonna take me below 10%? I assume you know what the word "catabolic" means, right? And you prolly also know how percentages work and that I can lose 10lbs while INCREASING my bf%, right?

In case you decide to consider that - heaven forbid - you may be wrong, feel free to look up windsprints and HIIT and a couple of studies on the effects of aerobic/anaerobic exercise and beta-oxidation on adipocytes and big words like that. If you've never tried windsprints or HIIT then do it and post your results in a month.

And btw, I in no way said cardio is the only option. I said for SOME of us it is, not counting goodies like DNP. For some it isn't. Whatever. Just figure out what works for you - period. If cardio doesn't then skip it and diet, end of problem.
 
DaMan said:


You seem to know very little about thyroid and metabolism manipulation, no offense. Dieting down reaches a point of diminishing returns for many of us - I can have a deficit of 2000kcal a day if I want by eating 500kcal and nothing else. Ya really think that's gonna take me below 10%? I assume you know what the word "catabolic" means, right? And you prolly also know how percentages work and that I can lose 10lbs while INCREASING my bf%, right?
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But DaMan,
if you create a 2000kcal deficit by being on a threadmill for say 2.5 hours you'd have the same horrific catabolic effects as drastically cutting enough out of your diet to reach a 2000kcal deficit. You would also have seriously stressed joints for doing a practical marathon on the threadmill, but that's a different issue.

That's way too much deficit. I'm 4.7%bf and I reached this by NOT doing any cardio as well. (I was 12%bf in january). My problem was that whenever I would do cardio it would lull me into a false sense of security and I would eat extra , thinking that it wouldn't effect me. Also for some reason, cardio makes me hungry as hell.
Way too hungry.

I just cut out my late evening snacks which were about 500kcals and lost fat. I also started working out everyday, but I was in the gym for only an hour each day!

Instead compare creating a 500kcal deficit thru dieting with using the stairmaster for 30 minutes. You'll find that they both would create the same caloric deficit, and are equally as catabolic, and equally effectiuve in fat loss.

Cardio *will* help you achieve fat loss, but that's because you're creating a caloric deficit, that's placing your calories below maintanance. But you could also achieve fat loss by creating that exact caloric deficit either thru eliminating some favorite junk food, or engaging in some other activity that would also burn the same amount of caloris as the cardio.

Again, cardio will work, but it's not a pre-requisite for losing fat. Now there are other cardio-vascular benefits to cardio, which is why I'm now doing cardio 3x a week.


rangerx83
 
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Ranger. . . going from 12% bf to 4.7% bf in less than 4 months, that equates to a little under 2% bf reduction per MONTH. . . now that's very damn impressive, not to mention you did this with NO cardio but by conforming your diet and working out more, what's your secret?

I too made great strides by adjusting my diet but nothing like what you mentioned. I cut out the night snacks, did away with the pasta, bread and rice, basically cut my carbs down drastically. This made a big difference but I'm still between 10% and 11%. Fuck dude. . . 4.7% you lucky bastard, you must have a case of gentics on your side...you gotta be ripped like a mo fo. :finger:
 
Matman said:
Ranger. . . going from 12% bf to 4.7% bf in less than 4 months, that equates to a little under 2% bf reduction per MONTH. . . now that's very damn impressive, not to mention you did this with NO cardio but by conforming your diet and working out more, what's your secret?

I too made great strides by adjusting my diet but nothing like what you mentioned. I cut out the night snacks, did away with the pasta, bread and rice, basically cut my carbs down drastically. This made a big difference but I'm still between 10% and 11%. Fuck dude. . . 4.7% you lucky bastard, you must have a case of gentics on your side...you gotta be ripped like a mo fo. :finger:
Click to expand...

Hey Matman, thanx for the compliment,
I used T3/clen/yohimbine for the first month (january). This got me down from 12% to 7.4%.The last 1.5 months I used massive doses of ALA (3000-4000mg/day). This got me down to 4.7%. I used a combination of working out everyday with weights, low carbing mixed with high carbing, strategic use of ALA. (see the threads on using ALA for cutting). The Fat Track electronic calipers helped a great deal. Whenever I'd see that fat loss stopped and I started gaining fat, I'd start low carbing. This would work for a while. Then once the fat loss stalled, I would high carb again. I could have been doing low carb alternated with high carb 1.5-2X per week.

I contribute my fat loss to disciplined dieting, wonderful chemicals :), and most of all ALA, which kept me in ketosis even on my high carb days. That stuff really works...

I am nowactually 4.2%, according to my fattrack calipers! At my gym they have a set of super accurate, expensive electronic calipers, and I'm going to verify that my measurements match theirs.

And yes, I may be ripped, but I'm tiny. I was 203 at 12%bf. I am now approximately 180 at 4.2%bf. I lost about 7 lbs of LBM. The rest was fat. My strength ain't what it used to be. I'm going about 20lbs lighter on the benchpress. But you know what, the chicks dig it, so who am I to complain! :)


January was the last 4 weeks of my cycle. I did 50mg tren with 50mg test prop EOD. That is all. In late february I started ** anavar at 60mg/day. I'm still on that.


I am now doing cardio, for the cardiovascular benefits, and mostly because I've got a mean case of tendonitis in both elbows. So I've got to give the weight training a break.

So to sum it up I did not need to do cardio to get to where I was.

regards,

Rangerx83
 
Ranger...That's funny, you mentioned you were at 203 at 12%bf cuz that's about were I am now. What worries me is that I will loose alot of LBM and strength while trying to get to the lower bf%. I have started on NYC (7 days now) and already dropped a few pounds (with no cardio I might add) and have dipped in my bf% cuz my lower abs are somewhat visible now, I just hate to loose any muscle at this point, I'm all natural and it took me a while to get here (206lb 6'3)

I don't know anything about ALA but I'll look into it, I have some yohimburn due in any day now and hope that might be the finishing touch I need, then just maintain from there, it's a 6 pack or nothing at this point.
 
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