Intermittent Fasting discussion thread!!

[muscleaddiction]

Well, I can give you a couple examples of meals that I've had this week for fast breakers, though I will tell you that I don't count calories. I haven't in a long time. I add things up in my head and I know a range that I will meet and stay in. I may be under 100 cals one day, and over 100 the next but it's all relative and works out the same in the end. Counting cals sucks, and I like to make my diet and lifestyle as comfortable as possible. I used to be OCD and weigh/count everything, but I found out that it really doesn't matter and it's unnecessary if you have an idea of what you are doing.

Understood...meals?

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[Mh48500]

I will throw a typical 1st meal up for critique...keep in mind that I am not cutting, just trying to keep body fat down and actually gain weight.

Food Name
Amount
Unit
Cals
Fat (g)
Carbs (g)
Prot (g)
Delete


Total
1,336
35.6
98.2
153.1

Milk, whole

146
7.9
11.0
7.9

Banana, raw

90
0.3
23.1
1.1

Egg, whole, raw

143
9.9
0.8
12.6

Oatmeal, cooked, instant

212
2.8
42.6
5.8

Egg, white only, cooked

120
0.4
1.7
25.1

Chicken, breast, fried, no coating, skin not eaten

553
14.0
0.0
100.0

Grapes, raw

72
0.2
19.0
0.8



Total
1,336
35.6
98.2
153.1

 

[goin on 4T]

For me i use BCAA on all days upon waking especially before cardio and before working out to ensure that when your body burning energy and is not burning muscle for fuel but burning fat. So i think your thought on insulin is questionable. Because i would much rather be burning fat than muscle at any time. But i respect you and your knowledge so please help me understand. Thanks

Don't get me wrong, it can slow your fat loss but it won't stop it by any means. The difference probably is not "huge" but over the coarse of many weeks it could be the difference in a couple lbs of fat....who knows.

The main thing to remember is to eat and train for whatever your goal is that day. On cardio and rest days eat and train for fat loss, on workout days I eat and train for muscle gain.

Another thing I incorporate often are extended fasts (doing one today actually). The longer you go fasting on cardio/rest days the more fat loss you can have. I often fast 20 hours on these days and every once in a while I will do a 24 hour fast with just one meal around 1500 cals. This is extremely effective for fat loss, and the great thing is that contrary to what you might think there is zero catabolism during this. Studies have proven that the body can go upwards of 30 hours (closer to 40 hours) before muscle wastage even starts. Take advantage on these days and fast as long as you can!

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[RickRock13]

For me i use BCAA on all days upon waking especially before cardio and before working out to ensure that when your body burning energy and is not burning muscle for fuel but burning fat. So i think your thought on insulin is questionable. Because i would much rather be burning fat than muscle at any time. But i respect you and your knowledge so please help me understand. Thanks






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BCAAs are not what dictate whether you burn fat or muscle during fasted training. This is the same fears and myths that people have been following for years, thinking that you have to have some type of protein in your body or you go catabolic, which is nonsense. If you have that fear around cardio, what do you think happens while you are fasting, and why wouldn't you be catabolic then?

When insulin is up, your body cannot effectively burn fat. The definition of necessary is something that is needed or required. You don't need them and they unnecessarily disrupt the balance of glucagon and insulin during the fast on a day when the only goal is to burn fat.

By the way, I don't deem them that way the creator of Lean Gains deems them that way... I am not spitting out crap just read the site. The only time aminos are recommended is right before lifting in a fasted state, then every 2 hours after until you have your first meal. He never once recommends using them on a cardio or rest day, they go against the premise of the program.


Amino Acids cause an insulin release, leucine the most anabolic of them causes the largest insulin release. So insulin is still produced throughout the fasting portion of the day. It is more to do with the balance of insulin and glucagon. Glucagon is what tells your body to preserve muscle mass and burn fat for energy. Insulin and Glucagon like peptide are antagonistic hormones. Insulin is anabolic and tells the body to run off of glycogen, to store nutrients, glucagon tell the body to release fat for energy and not use the glycogen.

So...in a nutshell, consuming BCAAs before cardio will disrupt that balance, and cause an insulin release, which tells your body to burn glycogen for fuel instead of fat

 

[RickRock13]

Understood...meals?

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My last workout day fast breaker went like this:

Whole grain spaghetti with 97% lean ground beef
3/4 cup shredded mozzarella cheese
2 pieces of garlic bread
1 cup of fat free cottage cheese
1 slice of Layne Nortons cheesecake (150 cals, 20g protein, 6g carbs, 2.5g fat per slice)
2 scoops of whey with added maltodextrin and waxy maize

Another example looks like this

12 oz ribeye steak
1 cup green beans
Sweet potato
1 cup oats
2 scoops of whey with added maltodextrin and waxy maize
5 oz of flavored Greek yogurt




Cardio day fast breaking meals are always very clean and look similar to this....

14 oz grilled chicken breast (sometimes fish instead)
Steamed green veggies
5 oz plain Greek yogurt (or fat free cottage cheese)
2 scoops of whey


An alternative meal may be this

Salad with grilled chicken (10-14oz)
Fat free dressing
1/2 -3/4 cup fat free cheese
5 oz plain Greek yogurt
2 scoops of whey

 

[goin on 4T]

BCAAs are not what dictate whether you burn fat or muscle during fasted training. This is the same fears and myths that people have been following for years, thinking that you have to have some type of protein in your body or you go catabolic, which is nonsense. If you have that fear around cardio, what do you think happens while you are fasting, and why wouldn't you be catabolic then?

When insulin is up, your body cannot effectively burn fat. The definition of necessary is something that is needed or required. You don't need them and they unnecessarily disrupt the balance of glucagon and insulin during the fast on a day when the only goal is to burn fat.

By the way, I don't deem them that way the creator of Lean Gains deems them that way... I am not spitting out crap just read the site. The only time aminos are recommended is right before lifting in a fasted state, then every 2 hours after until you have your first meal. He never once recommends using them on a cardio or rest day, they go against the premise of the program.


Amino Acids cause an insulin release, leucine the most anabolic of them causes the largest insulin release. So insulin is still produced throughout the fasting portion of the day. It is more to do with the balance of insulin and glucagon. Glucagon is what tells your body to preserve muscle mass and burn fat for energy. Insulin and Glucagon like peptide are antagonistic hormones. Insulin is anabolic and tells the body to run off of glycogen, to store nutrients, glucagon tell the body to release fat for energy and not use the glycogen.

So...in a nutshell, consuming BCAAs before cardio will disrupt that balance, and cause an insulin release, which tells your body to burn glycogen for fuel instead of fat

I am sorry I just don't see it like that. I respectfully disagree with you and will bow out of this discussion.

 

[themondtster]

Rick- your thoughts on coffee on the fast stage. I usually wake up early and I'm at work for 430-500. I won't eat till later but I do have a cup of coffee or two. Helps curb appetite, its habit, and more of a social thing cause we bullshit for a while before working. Does this have a negative or positive effect.

 

[Akul]

http://oi47.tinypic.com/un1mr.jpg

I've been following IF and doing an RPT style training since May 21st.. Is a deload week necessary? I've gone up from 270lbx6 deadlift to 305lbx6 deadlift, 185lb x 6 bench to 212.5lb x 6, and 285lb x 6 squat to 315lb x 6 squats... I lost 6 lbs during this time and weigh 172lbs, I'm 6'2 and it looks like im in single digits BF%....

I feel like I can keep going up in weights, but I'm interested in finding out if I should have a deload week and then continue up after or keep going how I am going for a few more weeks before I deload..

Also, I do not count my calories (I know I should) but as I stated earlier I have lost 6 pounds... I would like to get into the 180-185 range but stay at 10 or below % body fat... Any suggestions? I'm pretty much stuffing my face at every meal haha.. I'm just pretty lanky.. I am an ectomorph (as you can see haha), so what should I do to put on that weight of LEAN muscle and remain at a lower BF


Thanks

 

[RickRock13]

I am sorry I just don't see it like that. I respectfully disagree with you and will bow out of this discussion.

No problem bud. I welcome your input if you'd like to continue in here.

There is nothing wrong with using BCAAs around cardio if you choose to. I was just simply stating that their use on cardio only or rest days can be detrimental towards maximum fat loss if that's your goal.

I actually used BCAAs on cardio days for a long time myself before I learned that

Animos replace ATP quickly when atp is available it will be used for energy before fats. If the goal on that day is to burn fat then you are doing 2 things to slow it. Supplying pre digested energy substrate and causing an insulin spike

 

[RickRock13]

Rick- your thoughts on coffee on the fast stage. I usually wake up early and I'm at work for 430-500. I won't eat till later but I do have a cup of coffee or two. Helps curb appetite, its habit, and more of a social thing cause we bullshit for a while before working. Does this have a negative or positive effect.

I think coffee is a great thing to have during the fasting period if that is something you like to have. Stimulants in general are recommended and encouraged by Martin during the fasting period (especially around training) for a variety of reasons including but not limited to an obvious increase in energy and performance, as well as the appetite suppression to help with the fasting that stimulants provide.

The thing to look at during the fasting period is caloric value and what may or may not cause an insulin release. Obviously adding things like milk and sugar to the coffee will do this.