Figure competitor wants to REALLY compete

[2raptors]

Hi Forum.

Just a quick history: My wife is a CPT, first time figure competitor, training "hard" now for 2 years. though she looks fantastic, and is extremely strong, she has reached the wall...and is now ready to climb over it.

SO...she's a "virgin", she is 5'11, 145lbs at competition weight, 155 during training....she's used the low carb, high fat/protien diet, with hard work and looks good. All the pro's approached her and told her she could "dominate" in this sport if she could put on some decent mass....

So she's ready....really ready. BUT, as this is her first time... we've both read "realgains" great article, and "The BOOK"....but are having a hard time designing her first stack. We've read the pro's and con's...and she wants to gain some thick muscle...for the 2008 spring season.

She feels (as do I) that she won't gain enough on just "anavar"....we have access to HGH, Winny, etc....and want to create a productive 12 week program.

Can anyone (ladies) give a definitive answer or suggestion so we can get started?

Thanks

2raptors

 

[2raptors]

Oh...her contest bodyfat was around 12%, right now, she's at 14. We utilized the Precision Nutrition "get shreded diet"...and man did it work...just not good enough to win....we f'd up the salt load...she "peaked" too soon....yada, yada, yada...we're still learning....

but strength wise....she is awesome with kettlebells, her max back squat to parallel is 235, lots of w/g pull ups (outstanding back).....just lacking that "muscular look" that is winning.

She wants to WIN, damit!!!

THanks again!

 

[Sassy69]

Any pix? IMO 12% for competition is waaay too high -- I'd expect more like 10% for serious national level figure. And she "peaked" too soon on a salt load? At 12% I'm still gonna say the salt load didn't matter that much because I don't consider 12% to be lean enough for it to make a difference. I'm drawing my comments from my own experience and several years watching figure & BB competitors. Some people can get away w/ 12% and look lean, but IMO not many. At 12% any sort of peak week water manipulation is borderline irrelevant in the BB world. So .. anyway - if she's done one show, that is barely enough to scratch the surface of understanding what makes your body work and how to dial it in specifically. There are wayyyy too many variables to isolate it to 1 item like a salt load. Again, iMO and not seeing her picture or knowing the details of her diet.

Also 1 show isn't alot as 2 yrs training isn't a lot. I want to say that it is still 80% diet & and 20 % training. If you aren't eating to put on some mass, then don't bother looking for the drugs.

I also think that if you are plannign to play on the dark side you really do need to spend some time doing it - i.e. its your own personal experiment and you need to know how your body & your mind react to it. IMO var is probably sufficient. If she needs more then I would argue that the diet & training are lacking. Sounds like she has a good squat but at that height and that weight I bet she has more to be gained from more calories and a serious bulker - food-wise that is.

I guess I'd like to see what is your plan for the diet aspect of this mass builder you plan to do. I also think 12 weeks is not sufficient for making a real difference if that's what you are trying to do.

Not to be a downer but I'd seriously suggest starting w/ var. If you want go w/ the winstrol but winny tends to be a rougher drug - more androgenic for sure compared to var. For either you don't need to be more aggressive than starting at 5 mg ED - run for either - about 2 weeks - takes that long for the drug to establish itself in the body & "show" some sense that its there - this gives you enough time to know if whatever you got is fake, if you have any sort of weird reaction to it, etc. Yes run it w/ the GH, at 1 iu ED. At 2 weeks, up the AAS dose to 10 mg ED and stay there. Give it enough time to work - women can run long cycles at low dose. I'd personally suggest more like 10-16 weeks than just 12.

And be realistic about what you are trying to do - like I said - stepping into the dark side is your own personal experiment. Its not rocket science but women need to understand all the potential sides as well as resutls & know how to deal w/ them. Its not just about popping a pill or shooting something. If your diet & training aren't designed to achieve your goals, if anything you'll just get bulky on a cycle.

Given all my comments - again - not trying to be a downer, but I see way too many girls w/ incredibily limited history of training and diet and they think they can only compete if they are juicing. I am very objective and straight up in my comments regarding this issue. And also regarding figure - there are sooooo many figure girls trying to break in so please understand - again I get that everyone wants a pro card, but spend some time working towards it & get some real and serious muscle the right way. Be serious about it because you are planning to self-medicate w/ male hormones. Its not a big deal but it is. And its not a quicky fix either. I have no idea what your competition schedule is for next year - next year is 4 months away - I'd spend that time growning some muscle and be consistent w/ it to get a little bit of muscle maturity.

Can you provide some more diet & training detail as well as your target schedule for next yr competition?

And welcome to EF!

 

[2raptors]

OK...here is her competition photos....

The diet plan...well, it would take a novel to share that with you? i mean, we're eating clean all week, whatever we want on Sundays....Surge X2 (during warm up, sipping during workout and full serving after..) and are bumping caloric intake way up in the protiens and good fats dept...utilizing carbs pre/post work out, and troff's full of vegies between... she's got the diet planned....I'm not sure...around 3500 per day... protien based... I'd be happy to scan a pdf of her diet plan and attach it.

The competition she is shooting for is May of 07.... She's starting the Mass cycle (in the gym and adding calories) tomorrow... So she's got about 9 months out... I need to read your reply again (as posting the pics brought me to another window..) and I'll answer and have questions about the rest there.

Thanks SO MUCH for your detailed reply...of course, looking forward to your next.

Cheers

M

 

[2raptors]

I've looked a ton of your posts...recommendations, reviews, etc....

Great info. We've been following a myriad of training programs, and have HUGE strength gains via EDT, (Staley/Cosgrove), and have broken strength plats with these programs, and the incorp of kettlebells to our training sessions....cardio is invariably Interval training (with stair climbing, lsd on treadmills ever other week, etc.).

Right now, we're going to be trying a Christian Thibideaux plan for putting on muscle, and are going to be utilizing the Gold's "Body Success" plan for diet construction, basedon her desiring to be at 8-10% bodyfat and at 155lbs (instead of 146 at 10-11%, where she was for contest). We really think she can gain the muscle if given the push....

I didn't want to put pages and pages of diet... it's right on track with what you've recommended to others...in your other posts.....

You got the pics now...let her know what you think....of course, we REALLY appreciate your time

Cheers

2raptors

 

[2raptors]

Oh...how come my avatar is not showing up? and How can i put pics in our gallery for others to view??? I haven't found that.. in my profile choices.

thanks

 

[Ilk]

Oh...how come my avatar is not showing up? and How can i put pics in our gallery for others to view??? I haven't found that.. in my profile choices.

thanks

If you click on private messages.... On the left it has Edit Avator... so you can upload a pic and to upload in your gallery... Go into your profile and click on more images, Or go to your gallery, On the top right side it should say, upload pictures..

 

[2raptors]

If you click on private messages.... On the left it has Edit Avator... so you can upload a pic and to upload in your gallery... Go into your profile and click on more images, Or go to your gallery, On the top right side it should say, upload pictures..

AH...GOT IT! Thanks! Uploaded some pics of her.... recommendations would be great!

Thanks

M

 

[Ilk]

AH...GOT IT! Thanks! Uploaded some pics of her.... recommendations would be great!

Thanks

M

good!

 

[Sassy69]

I think you might need to be a platinum member to post pix, the avi I'm not sure about... eek. sorry.

OK Yes totally agree - great structure and already have the wide lats nailed - this is a huge problem for most girls, esp if they have only just recently started lifting - they just aren't built w/ wide shoulders. W/ some targeted lat work I've seen some fantastic growth - ref *Bunny*'s competition thread on here....

As far as putting on mass - and then cutting - honestly I'd say you can still expect to be more below 150 instead of 155 - if you are comparing w/ the pix from the first show - that may work for a local show but IMO waaay too much bodyfat to consider anything above a regional show. Nice structure but need tighter everything and more detail everywhere, more capping on the delts. But note that will all come w/ dieting down to 10% ish. I don't know that you can mass up 10 lb of muscle & expect to cut down and keep that additional 10 lb. You could have easily dropped 10 lb to get below that 12% on the first show.

It sounds like the programs you are doing will work well - I have great respect for those guys. But again - because this is still very recent muscle massing I don't know how much can be kept w/ say 6 months of lifting and then start cutting at 3 months out . Again just referring to the whole muscle maturity concept.

I normally woudlnt' even recommend someone this new to be using any aas- but low dose anavar would go a long way towards preserving muscle during this as well as encouraging some growth and maintaining the results longer.

Again - not to slam but figure is rampant w/ first timers who just got into it because they lost some weight or whatever - totally legitimately allowed to compete - but the barriers to entry are so low that there is very little thought given to investing years instead of months into lifting to build a good competition body. Its great if you have some natural structure that lends itself well to what are the current (i.e. this year's) judging criteria for "a winner" but unless you have some years behind you building soem solid mass, EVERYONE will tell you you look great but you need more mass. And then everyone goes running off looking for some steroids to get that mass. Another aspect is doing at least a few repeated cycles of competition cutting to condition your body down so that it is used to cutting thru the fat tendencies that most women have - i.e. estrogen fat. So its not like one or two shows makes you a winner if you're a complete newbie.

Anyway -- off my soapbox -- just see it too often to be impressed out of the gate by a pro saying anything about how much potential people have. Its time put in - remember most of the pros, at least the early pros, are retired fitness girls w/ physique training probably dating back to their early teens if not earlier w/ gymnastics. Equivalently I think you'd be hard pressed to put a Master's pro in BB up against a younger pro and not have the younger one blown out of the water simply due to years in the gym.