Face Pulls

[Vortexx]

You may be right, but being stubborn as i am I give it a try for three months and will give an honest account of what happend.

Funny thing is that some things in bb defy logic when you first look at them.

Example, a buddy of mine was able to let his arms shoot up to 19" inches by training them EVERY DAY.

first i was very sceptical about his recovery time< but when he got results so fast< i figured their must be a difference between RECOVERY TIME FOR A SINGLE MUSCLE and RECOVERY TIME FOR CNS / INTERNAL ORGANS ETC...

Offcoars he was doing less sets for arms every day than if he would devote a single arm day and he was doing this for one bodypart only, otherwise I would be pretty sure he would be short on TOTAL BODY RECOVERY time and pretty soon birnt out....


What I hope for that hammering away at my back more often in a week will not eat away too much of my total body recovery time . If i can keep it within the limits i might get away with it. Maybe when thickness of my back is up to par I might choose to overtrain another bodypart and take a full 4-5 days between hitting back again....

I'll keep you posted...

 

[magdelana]

Spatts if i had your brains and dedication to learning and experimenting i would be 220 instead of 200!

Vortexx ben je nederlander of niet? Kun je nederlands? I will say this in engels then since i do not know: why so many rowing movements? I say maybe drop the one arm rows. I also do not think (and this is from what i see in my own back over 16 years) that there is no difference in the muscles hit by t-bars and those hit by barbell rows. I might suggest just two big movements here, pulldowns/pullups and bentover barbell rows as they limit the biceps working more then t-bars.

Also remember that the muscles you work on your rear delt/trap day are fairly small muscles. If you want to do four excerizes total for this area then i would say to limit your sets quite a bit. 8 worksets to complette failure for this area is a lot of work.

Lower volumne higher intensity workouts have allowed me to add about 35 pounds of muscle over the years. It can work.

As for your friends arms. It was extra pump, not new muslce. . I also added an inche to my arms in just two weeks by doing very high volumne arm workouts many years ago. Decreased my volumne amount and the pump left quickly.

 

[Screwball]

Good post, Magdelena! I am in total agreement with all of your suggestions.

 

[latinus_spicticus]

You are doing the face pulls wrong. They should be done on a low pulley with the tricep strap or a rope. Bring the rope to your forehead while retracting the scapulae. This is one of the best exercises for the rear delts/neck/traps/upper back.

Go here http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_85back.html and look at exercise number 4. This is the proper illustration for "face pulls".

The way that you are doing them on an overhead pulldown machine is not nearly as effective as doing them on a lateral plane using a low pulley.

 

[Vortexx]

Hi Magdalena,

I am a "geboren en getogen" dutch guy indeed.

I will throw out the one-arm rows and crank up intensity on the other exercises

I am glad to hear that T-bars work the same muscles as barbell rows !!!

Cause T-bars are more stabile for me and less prone for lowerback injuries (I have to watch my lowerback carefully due to car-accident i had in my adolescent years)

About more biceps involvement in T-bars as opposed to barbell rows, fortunately my bi's are pretty strong links, they usually do not fail before my back muscles.

do you use wide/reverse grip T-bar rows as well (this would most mimic the barbell row) ???? Unfortunately in our gym we only the small triangle attachments and lack true multi-grip handle so that you can space your hands to suit your needs....

Also i have some questions about the execution:

1. To Jerk or not to Jerk ? Keep the torso in a fixed position or use the erector spinae as assisting muscle? How much jerking is acceptable...?

2. Angle of the Torso, In my gym I see some people allmost standing upright when they "proudly demonstrate" how much weight they can pull. I feel that this is self-deception. I have allways done T-bars with upperbody parallel to the floor , less weight and good form, but maybe i need some angle in between ??????

3. Should I hold and squeeze in the contracting position ?

It's not all questions, I actually got a nice trick for T-bars.
Many people load up the bar with like 3 big 45 lbs plates. But when you pull the bar, the size of the plates limits the range of motion as they hit your torso... I alway use all the small plates in the gym ( not everybody likes that ;-) and get much greater range of motion....

 

[Imnotdutch]

You are doing the face pulls wrong. They should be done on a low pulley with the tricep strap or a rope. Bring the rope to your forehead while retracting the scapulae. This is one of the best exercises for the rear delts/neck/traps/upper back.

Go here http://www.testosterone.net/html/body_85back.html and look at exercise number 4. This is the proper illustration for "face pulls".

The way that you are doing them on an overhead pulldown machine is not nearly as effective as doing them on a lateral plane using a low pulley.

The illustration doesn't show a low pulley......the pulley is set at head height. Also, neither the text or the pictures say bring the rope to the forehead. One other thing, the guy in your article has to rotate his arms (so wrists move over upper arm) to get a full range of movement. To bring the rope to the forehead he would need to rotate his arms even more. That isn't necessary in Spats method..........

Besides, if Bfold and Spats (plus her training partners) do them this way I'll go with their methods. They seem to make alot of progress doing things their way.

Of course there is also the problem of finding an appropriate pulley that is at face height if you want to use the method you linked to.......

 

[Imnotdutch]

Whilst I'm here.........

Spats,
I remember you posting something about making great gains in your bench since you were shown what to do with your back. Could you write what you do with your back.......I'm experimenting with my technique and am trying to find success stories to refer to.

 

[magdelana]

Hoi Vortexx,

Funny that we type only in engels to each other. I guess we should sinds others can read too. Why do all Amsterdammers speak such perfect engels??!? I could learn from you i think!

Ja t-bars use the biceps more and make it possbile to lift more weight. However, even with very stron bis they are still small muscles and will fail before the muscles of the back. good that you stay with them instead of barbells if you feel so much more comforable with them and feel that they protect your back as well. I might suggest just that you think about lifting the weitht with your elbos, and compleetly forget your arms are there. Imagine that someone is behind you pulling your arms up by your elbos. Lift with the elbos nice and high. This can make much less bicep involvement here. And squeez hard to the top of the move with the weight pulled to your chest, one second count here, and no pause at all at the bottom of the move.

No, do not jerk with the erectors. Remember you are working the upper back not lower. The jerking thing i something i see many guys do in order to just lift more weight. Only your arms, sholders and scapula should move.

Yes do them parallel to the floor. You are doing them better then those other guys.

tot meels, lana

 

[latinus_spicticus]

This post is for anyone who is intelligent and open-minded enough to listen to sound advice. Try both methods of face pulls: one using a low pulley where you bring the rope to the neck/head/face, and one using the high pulldown machine where you bring the rope to the neck/head/face. Which variation feels more effective and is more difficult? You get BINGO if you say "the low pulley variation". Poliquin, simmons/westside guys etc. all advocate using the low pulley for face pulls. Low-pulley face pulls are a GREAT exercise-- I am only trying to help out here. If you aren't doing them and have access to a low pulley machine, then you are only cheating yourself. I am not going to argue this anymore, my point has been made.

 

[Imnotdutch]

This post is for anyone who is intelligent and open-minded enough to listen to sound advice. Try both methods of face pulls: one using a low pulley where you bring the rope to the neck/head/face, and one using the high pulldown machine where you bring the rope to the neck/head/face. Which variation feels more effective and is more difficult? You get BINGO if you say "the low pulley variation". Poliquin, simmons/westside guys etc. all advocate using the low pulley for face pulls. Low-pulley face pulls are a GREAT exercise-- I am only trying to help out here. If you aren't doing them and have access to a low pulley machine, then you are only cheating yourself. I am not going to argue this anymore, my point has been made.

Ok I just found a definition of Face Pulls written by none other than Dave Tate;

"Face Pulls: This exercise is designed to work the muscles of the upper back and posterior deltoids with the use of a lat pulldown machine and a straight bar or leather tricep strap. Stand in front of the pulldown machine with your hands spaced on the bar wider than shoulder width. Stand back and pull the bar to your face while keeping your elbows flared out. Try to contract the muscles of your upper back for a couple of seconds before returning to the starting position."

Here is the link:

http://www.t-mag.com/articles/158bench.html

So apparently Westside does not advocate the low pulley.

In the link that you posted yourself I believe the author was Poliquin......he said use a face height pulley not a low pulley.

As far as intelligent enough to listen to sound advice......where there are conflicting points of view is it not intelligent to listen to all sides and then make your mind up?? it seems to me that if you want to make progress in this game you have to be prepared to experiment and listen to those that try new things.....I'll be trying both methods and I'll let youknow which feels more effective to me.

BTW we are not arguing to the best of my knowledge.....