Deadlift rut

[TheOak84]

Why not strike a compromise, Oak? Try a reduced volume deadlift routine.

i did my friend, i cut back alot.. from about 12-15 work sets to 6-9.. i WILL give DC a try, i said already this summer, may-june.

ill tell you how it goes, ill do it faithfully.. with the way im training now, i am making pregress in strenght, id say about a pound a month in size, and strenght, i cant really pinpoint my gains, but im sure as hell making progress.

if DC gives me better gains, then ill do that for 8-10 weeks, then switch to something else (5x5), or whatever..

 

[spatts]

FWIW, there's a reason that in WSB we almost NEVER do a FULL ROM 1 rep max on any move. Deads, squats, bench...nothing. We'd be...uh, dare I say....overtrained? We cycle things in a 3 week rotation...deads, squat move, good mornings, etc. If you ever go to elitefts.com and look at the mx efforrt exercise lists, you could find enough ideas that you could go months on end without doing the same move twice. There's a good reason for that.

Train smart. One thing that is routinely not taken into consideration around here is conditioning. What overtrains you may not overtrain me, and vice versa. Judge your symptoms and progress for yourself. Be your own critic....and be a thinking one.

 

[BlkWS6]

Wow guldukat Im glad to see you too took a logic course, and I must say I have never seen someone actually break down an argument on the Internet and bring up straw man that is hilarious (did you use a textbook?). So by me continuing this thread, am I contributing to a "slippery slope" scenario or assuming a "slippery slope" might occur is a "hasty generalization"? LOL Anyways, this issue with Debaser has gone on for a while now. I didnt specifically reference this thread. If you use the search button you will find numerous posts in which he refers to routines as shit. Frankly, Im offended slightly if someone will refer to a great program as shit. All that does is further perpetuate misinformation on here. Im glad you took the time to break down all of our fallacies of logic but please realize that this is an ongoing issue. Im all for people presenting their views (that is what makes this place great), but as you can see me as well as other members get a little annoyed when they are presented in a "holier than thou" approach that Debaser seems to take.

 

[Debaser]

It seems a few people on EF are the only ones that take offense to my attitude. I have stated countless reasons why volume training is bullshit. If this offends you, deal with it. You're taking it way too personally. I am entitled to my opinion. Define "great program," too. I don't remember calling any routine shit unless it was a volume routine. Volume does not equate to "great program," I'm sorry to say. If you're referring to 5x5, I said something like:

"Though 5x5 (needsize's method) is still too much volume for the average trainee, it's still better than most split routines."

There aren't that many fucking routines to choose from once you break them down to their core:

Very high volume (16+ sets a bodypart, at least 4 days a week often 5 or even 6 for the deranged) - Ludicrous, "bullshit," whatever you want to call it. If you're even close to average and not on gear than forget about gaining anything. You'll probably lose strength due to overtraining.

High volume (more than 3 sets per bodypart, or generally more than 3 days a week) - Not an overtraining fest like above. However, many trainees will still fail or make slow progress on such a program. Those who are above average or "enhanced" will make gains but not anywhere near as fast as they COULD be.

H.I.T./hardgainer/DC - The way to go for nearly everyone. It JUST MAKES SENSE. You train within your ability to recouperate, and you add reps or weight to the bar every single session (except at the start of a training cycle where you start out with "comfortable" weights). Your body, instead of expending all of its resources to simply RECOVER from a high volume workout, actually builds some muscle. DC is unique in that it's super low volume with higher frequency. You're hitting the bodyparts more often while still recouperating, thus allowing optimum growth and strength gains.

HST - A fine program. Not "optimum" for strength gains but they will still come, and that's obviously not the goal of the protocol.

WSB/some other powerlifting methods - Work well for many but too much frequency for many people (I said volume the first time regarding WSB but I was mistaken)

Olympic Lifting - I know little in this area...

 

[BlkWS6]

You yourself classifed 5x5 as volume training!! And you just stated this: "I don't remember calling any routine shit unless it was a volume routine." Although less volume then most, you still considered 5x5 volume training (that is almost exactly in your words from a post about a week or two ago) and as you just said you call it shit if it is a volume routine. Therefore, you are calling the 5x5 shit and that is the "great program" I was referring to. You remember now? Or am I going to have to go thread hunting?


Here, this will refresh your memory. http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=215660&highlight=5x5


And what is my whole point to this? I sticking up for the 5x5 which is a routine that has done wonders for so many people. You of all people should respect sticking up for a program that you think works really well. I just dont want people to hear that it is "shit" (especially from someone who hasnt tried it) and then not want to give the program a shot because of this. You see my point?

 

[Debaser]

God you're arguing stupid symantics. I would place 5x5 as volume training, i.e. still inefficient and not as productive as possible for trainees. Not in the higher volume category ("shit") but still "too high."

Because people have made gains doesn't mean that it is the most productive way to train. Many trainees would overtrain on that program. If you doubt that maybe you should realize that many people have less than average genetics and recovery. I have decent genetics, so probably I "could" gain on it, but not nearly as fast as DC training, or HST. So why would I do it? The reason people like it is because it's better than routines that are higher volume. They'll do it until they find something better. When they try DC/HST/HIT they'll have found it.

 

[BlkWS6]

Dude dont try and dodge the bullet. I just provided proof that you refer to it as a shitty high volume routine. Providing proof is stupid symantics? Give me a break. If you cant take responsibility for things you have said then dont say it. I love the gains I make on the 5x5 (or a variation of it) and in fact I have made better gains on it then I did on DC training. I have tried both routines, you have not. Im done beating a dead horse with you Debaser.

 

[Debaser]

Really? How long did you try DC training? And how were you eating? This is vital because he has stated that his diet and training go together as a package.

 

[b fold the truth]

I think that this needs to either end...or someone needs to leave. Simple as that.

I am asking you nicely...either change your attitude or move to another board. We are friendly here and we do not want anyone or anything to disrupt that. You have your thoughts and ideas...so present them. If people don't want to take your advice...then let it be. Don't spend your time putting down other people's lifts or routines...unless you don't mind other people putting down yours.

Once again...change your attitude or leave.

B True

 

[TheOak84]

Debaser, i picked my exersises.. what do i do next...

dude, do you avoid questions, or have ADD?