Deadlift rut

[gmanlax7]

debaser - can you explain what the 'protein turn over rate' of the muscles, hemoglobin, enzymes etc. means in the article you posted ?

 

[epimetheus]

I'm not juicing or lying. Sorry it's so hard for you to believe. Explain to me how it's "physiologically impossible." You're talking out of your ass. Obviously my gains will slow down eventually (I won't be over 100 lbs heavier in a year) but for now they haven't slowed down. I was up to 212, then lost some weight for other reasons. So regaining up to 212 shouldn't be tough, then I'll report my gains as usual after that.

Did you even read that article? It gives the reason, and shows I am not talking out my ass. I am not saying you didn't gain 2-3 lbs a week, I am saying you aren't gaining 2-3lbs of muscle mass- that is simply not possible except on steroids.

Don't take this as an attack on DC method, it isn't. I agree that DC is very effective and that overtraining is a serious problem. However, your claim that you, and thus others, can gain 2-3 lbs of lean muscle mass (not water, not glycogen) every week is misleading.

 

[Thaibox]

It is not uncommon for his trainees to gain over 2 lbs a week of almost all muscle (I am gaining 2-3 lbs/week).

Here are 4 clients that DC holds up to the highest level of accomplishment. Please notice that the only natural guy(#3) gained 1 lb per week. He did not say lean, so we have no idea what percentage of that was muscle and what was bodyfat. DC said that all four either maintained the same bf or dropped. However, it is necessary that fat be gained if bf% was maintained. Therefore, the one natural client that he is bragging about gained much less than 1 lb of lean mass a week.

1)188 to 260(2.5 years)

2)172 to 254 (3 years)

3)208 to 261(clean! genetic mesomorph 1 year)

4)218 to 275 (cut his juice in half, doubled his protein, showed him how to train
correctly-2 years)

1) 1.8 pounds per week
2) 1.9 pounds per week
3) 1 pound per week
4) 1.8 pounds per week


NONE of his BEST clients even made it to 2 lbs a week gain of bodyweight on juice(not even lean mass).

 

[BlkWS6]

Wow this is getting interesting (especially Thai's post). Im just so curious why you feel the need to put others down so much and shove your program down everyones throat. Just like Needsize stated, he made awesome gains off the 5x5 yet he doesnt hijack every thread and preach about how all other programs suck and 5x5 is "the way." I too, and EVERYONE else I have had try 5x5 made unbelievable gains (Ruspa's bench went from 295lbs 5x5 to 355lbs 5x5 in I believe 3 months) Yet we dont attack everyone and say "you're training is not good, switch to 5x5." And the funny thing is Debaser you talk so much trash to everyone and put yourself on such a pedestal yet you wont even repond to questions regarding your lifts. You refuse on many occasions to answer how your bench press is going, cause you are ashamed of it, yet you have the audacity to put people down all the time. And Im not trying to take anything away from DC's accomplishments, but when I started training I was 130lbs, and now Im at 240lbs NATURALLY. In all honesty, I dont think that is all that uncommon. And I got to this level, by performing what you would consider "high volume work." Im just suggesting you re-assess how you respond to people on the board. DC came here himself and was very respectful in how he presented his program and how he responded to other programs, and he is the only reason I decided to try DC training. He presented his info very factually, and I respected what he had to say so I gave it a try for a little while. You take the flame approach, and you lose all credibility.

 

[Debaser]

That's over a period of years (as if those aren't incredible gains anyway) but I'm still relatively a beginner, keep that in mind...

I'll clarify a few things:

1. The 2-3 lbs a week would generally slow down after I'd say 3-6 months. Most guys that switch to DC, since they don't overtrain anymore (I'm sorry but most of you are) make gains like they're beginners again. Note: slow down still means it works a damn site faster than [every, imo] other training method.

2. When I say little to no fat gain, I did mean %, so yes I am gaining a bit of fat, probably something like 1/2 a lb a week. I do not know exactly. But some guys actually get leaner % wise, which means they actually gain very very little fat weekly. This has to do with his diet practices.

An example DC just posted was of a man who was clean, going from 202 to 237 in 5 months. To boot, he was a marine and had to do the intensive cardio regimen (at least miles of running, I'm not sure what else I could ask my marine friend though) 3 times a week. This is a very typical scenario, imagine the gains without the cardio? Probably 5-10 lbs or even more I'd say (though it's impossible to know). Many of you need to ask yourself, are you REALLY making gains like that? Even juiced? He has had hundreds of guys, most natural, making INCREDIBLE gains.

Sorry about the misconceptions.

 

[b fold the truth]

Isn't it funny how ONE person can come on a message board and because of THEIR personality they can totally ruin all desire to be a part of thier routine?

B True

 

[BlkWS6]

Originally posted by b fold the truth
Isn't it funny how ONE person can come on a message board and because of THEIR personality they can totally ruin all desire to be a part of thier routine?

B True


That was exactly my point B Fold. You and Spatts and other WSB'ers never put people down and really show your progress and only provide positive information on the site and it makes your routine seem so much more appealing. Needsize as well, he provides awesome feedback and does so respectfully and that is why I believe so many people are trying the 5x5 as well. Debaser wants so many to try DC training, yet he takes the absolute worse approach in trying to persuade others. He has posted this type of training before and got little response. DC came here and talked about the training and was very cool about it and now it is a sticky with over 400 replies.

 

[Rex999]

Ok Debaser, we get the point... you think DC is the only way to go. Good for you - I hope you do well on it. You're not going to convince everyone, so please stop trying. You WILL get bigger and stronger if you use progressively heavier weights and eat enough food. All systems work.. some better than others. The gains on all systems eventually slow to a crawl and you have to find ways to break the plateau. I've tried the one set to failure deal and I made great gains.. for a while. Now I'm using the 5x5 system and doing well. When the gains stop I might try something else.

I think the Westside style is the most effective for increasing the powerlift totals. They have a whole list of lifters with incredible totals. I don't think there's a lot of 1000 pound squatters out there doing one set to failure routines.

 

[TheOak84]

with all the shit Debaser eats, i DO believe he gains 2 pounds a week, of FAT, hahaha.. and you are right Blk, i never hear about his routine, or what he lifts.. all i hear is one set this one set that.. or dude, i hear 500g of protien and 1000g of carbs..

but i always hear from everyone else, dude, i reached a new PR, even if its, "i gained 5 pounds on my bench press in a month", something to build off of, and believe.. id rather hear that a 100 pound person gained 5 pounds in 2 months rather than2 pounds a week.. cuz, its real..

thats just me...

 

[Debaser]

Originally posted by b fold the truth
Isn't it funny how ONE person can come on a message board and because of THEIR personality they can totally ruin all desire to be a part of thier routine?

B True


That was exactly my point B Fold. You and Spatts and other WSB'ers never put people down and really show your progress and only provide positive information on the site and it makes your routine seem so much more appealing. Needsize as well, he provides awesome feedback and does so respectfully and that is why I believe so many people are trying the 5x5 as well. Debaser wants so many to try DC training, yet he takes the absolute worse approach in trying to persuade others. He has posted this type of training before and got little response. DC came here and talked about the training and was very cool about it and now it is a sticky with over 400 replies.

Jesus Christ, man. The only person I even remotely "put down" is theoak, and I guess "putting down" means saying "you're overtraining" Deepsquat said the same thing. I've just had enough of his crap, for reasons I already stated in this thread.

And talk about taking everything to extremes, some of you need to lighten the fuck up. I'm not shoving it down anyone's throats. All I'm saying is that volume routines are bullshit. If you somehow take offense to that, then that's your problem. It's not like I said "you're a fucking asshole." Volume routines have set back bodybuilding DECADES and have allowed the supplement company crooks to prosper.

It looks like just about everyone skipped over the "He is overtraining" post. Deepsquat, and many others would agree, that HE IS. So that's what I told him. He doesn't believe me, that's fine. He'll never make consistant progress. I tried to help him, and nicely too. He even said he would give the DC program an honest shot (never happened). You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.