1 month in questions. (and a Q for IrishPower)

[Twitched]

Okay,

I've been reading this board for a few months, and everything on elitefts.. westside is just brilliant, it is the light at the end of the tunnel for me. I've been doing westside for exactly 4 weeks now and I've already made huge gains (mostly from changing squat form, and strengthening triceps). My bench form was already a PL style because I have powerful lats so it came natural to me to bench with tucked elbows..I've always been built to pull too, so I needed no improvement there.. however.. squat.. squats were nothing but tender knees for me..

With wide stances, I can just feel the tension in my hamstrings and no pressure at ALL on my knees.. I love it..when I sit back (on the box or freestanding) my knees actually drift BACK a centimeter and have no forward movement..My question is this.. I am going real wide and keeping feet pointed straight ahead (to increase hip flexor tension, I'm flexible enough to do this). Now.. I can do one of two things when I squat like this..I can keep my legs in this "triangular" setup like for instance in a sumo squat, or I can flare out my knees so they are above my heels..what should be done? Both seem to be effective.. I'm worried I could damage my knees by flaring them out as I decend. They feel at an awkward angle.. but at the same note, I feel more hip and glute and quad recruitment then keeping knees in line with hip and heel rather then OVER heel... hope this makes sense..


now this question is for irish, or anyone else with input ( I mention irish because this man has FREAKY quads (as seen in his video) ). Do you guys ever work in any quad work? I hate quad work because it is nothing but stress on the knees.. however.. I hear an INSANE inbalance in quad/hams can cause problems with your knees as well.. do you guys work in some kind of quad work anywhere? Or will they just come natural with the regular west side methods?


Also.. for people who are natural pullers.. should we make accomodations to the plan by PULLING more often then the plan recommends? I was thinking 2 weeks pulling alternated with 2 weeks of the other westside stuff for ME sq/dl.
for example:

weeks 1,2: pull from floor
weeks 3,4: GM
weeks 5,6: pull from rack
weeks 7,8: low box sq
weeks 9,10: pull from floor
weeks 11,12: GM

etc.

I've always pulled big just from pulling every single week. I'd add 5-10lb and PR every week.. (got from 135 to 400 in this fashion, it was still working up until I quit to start westside).


Pressing.. I can 4-board press for 5 reps what leaves my whole arms SHAKING violently.. so I cant work up heavier because I cant stabilize it.. do I need to do static holds? How do I remedy this?

Do you guys ever work in overhead barbell presses as ME exersize?

How do your pecs get work? I bench so strictly with lats and tris my pecs are shrinking big time.. is it ok to work in 4 sets of 5 on incline db press with flared elbows?


I think this is it for now..

Thanks guys!


twitched

 

[Jagermeister]

About "flare out my knees": Do you mean you push your knees out lateraly?

About quads: I dont do any other quad work, but my quads still continue to get bigger all the time.

About deadlifting: *you want to do this after your max effort squat*

This mini cycle will not work for most people especial those not built to deadlift (short arms and legs and a long back), however this may be an effective program for those built to deadlift (long arms and legs and a short back). Those individuals might want to do this program right before a meet if this program works for them and have week final be the week before the meet. These percentages are based off your best deadlift. The first week do 16 singles at 60%, the second week do 14 singles at 65%, the third week do 12 singles at 70%, the fourth week do 10 singles at 75%, the fifth week do 8 singles at 80%, the sixth week do 6 singles at 85%. Only take 30 to 90 seconds rest between sets. This would obviously be a six-week mini cycle, however the first week can be skipped to make it a five-week cycle. You may not necessarily want to use the same stance that you use in competition

About bench: maybe you should try some dumbell work, or do some band work. Both with help with your stability.

About pecks: I dont do any specific peck work, and I wouldn't advise doing any bench pressing movement with flaired elbows



Jager

 

[IrishPower]

quads

Hey twitched:

To a large extent, I think thigh size is genetically determined. That being said, through most of my younger life, I did a LOT of extra quad work. I squatted shoulder width (or slightly wider), did a shitload of other accessories. I used to hang out with bodybuilders and they were always mad that my legs were bigger even though they could outrep me on the squat.

Now that I am older, I have dropped almost all quad work, at least that which involves reps.

After my contest, I am going to add an exercise back in that I really like. Narrow stance safety squats. I got a great lower back and quad pump from these but dropped them out for reasons i can't remember.

As a side note, I am still NOT totally convinced about this ultra-wide westside stance. I have been training 6 months on this style, and yes, I have gotten stronger, my legs have continued to get bigger, BUT i have a hard time breaking parallel when I switched from box squats to free squats in preparation for this coming meet. (see my next rant/post).


In summary, I believe that you should NOT totally neglect your quads in favor of all ultra-wide squats. I think rotating exercises in and out is always a good idea for supplementary work.


/irish

 

[Twitched]

thanks irish.. you're both a monster and very intelligent.. killer combo..

jager: thanks for the reply, good advice there, I think banded work will help..

as for my knees question, what I meant is what angle should my lower legs be in the lateral direction.. obviously I try to keep them 90degrees to the ground in the front to back plane, but what about the side to side plane? 90 degrees? or more like 45 degrees like in a sumo deadlift? Anyone have any ideas about this?

 

[bigokie]

Twitched,

When squatting you really should force your knees out over your feet. The triangular your talking about is actually bad for them. I have read where Louis was talking about it and he said it will hurt your knees. Also, if your knees are forcibly spread out it creates more tension in your hips giving you a better rebound out of the hole or off the box.

I don't work my quads at all, but they still get a workout from walking out the weight and from the wide stance squats.

If you are a natural puller you really shouldn't train it much at all. By training the muscles your pulls will get stronger. That is why you want to push up your box squat and ghr and rev. hyper, if you have one. That being said, you should still do some light pulls, 60-70% of max, once every week or so. Just to keep the form down.

For pressing, there are a few things that cause this. First do you work out with chains and bands? These will build stabilization in your arms that will stop or cut this way down. Next, hammer curls. Many people neglect the forearms thinking that they are not important, but they are. For anything that you grip the bar, which is everything, forearms are important. The tighter you can grip the bar the more force you can transfer to it. Also, hammer curls will help stabilize the arms and allow you to keep the bar from shaking.

I'm gonna start doing overhead pressing lockouts after my Dyn days. Kenny Patterson does these after 60% of his dynamic workouts and they seem to work for him. Just try them and see if they seem to work, I believe he did them right after speed benches and he would work up to 3x3.

Pecs are a big issue right now. Some people say to work them others don't. There are big benchers on both sides of the controversy. I work them somewhat. I do timed db presses the day after my Dyn and ME workouts. I do these with palms facing. They really seem to work your pecs and tris and shoulders. Give them a shot.

Hope this helps with something

 

[Twitched]

Bigokie, you answered every one of my questions completely, kudos to you, and to everyone that helped. I don't feel I need my pecs at all, but I want to retain my upper body thickness to keep the bar travel low, (and ok ok, I admit it, for the beach)..

I havn't included bands or chains yet. I think it's time to get some minis.. I just started westside last month, so I was going to "add them in" once I hit a stale point..

 

[bigokie]

Train your back real hard and you won't have to move the bar very far at all. Plus a thick back makes your chest look bigger. Chains and bands are the best training aid to come along so far. Just be sure not to overdue the bands in speed benches.