you will get better strength gains if you do NOT train to failure

[Twitched]

I train to "pre failure" so to speak.. where I do not fail, but I know my body enough to know that another rep will definately lead to total failure. And I never go to failure on squats, or even close. Too risky.


As for "light work".. I don't believe in it. I think it's a waste of time. If you are "recouperating" by doing light work, you should've stayed home and taken a nap, it would have been more productive.


Someone once showed me the Max-OT program they have on the web, and low and behold all the principles and routines I have always believed in are sitting right there. I highly recommend it.



twitched

 

[decadense]

That MIGHT be true for natural training but steroids change the equation.

 

[Silent Method]

you will get better strength gains if you do NOT train to failure

This statement is WAY to broad. What are we talking about here? What kind of sets are we assuming were used to test this? How 'bout reps per set? Exercises per bodypart? What kind of rest intervals is this based on? What kind of recovery periods between routines? Whats the bigger picture, the overall training outline look like? Exactly what kind of data resulted from this study? Was this even a study, or just someones opinion?

Oh, for the record, periodization is the way to go. Doing the same thing all the time sucks.

 

[youngyoung]

I've studied under Zatsiorsky (Russian olympic strength coach for 20 years!!) and periodization is the way to go. You have to have a plan with your workouts. Sometime you go to absolute failure and some times you don't. You have to realize what system you are taxing each day, each week, each month, ect.. The name of the game is recovery (supercompensation). Get the book Science of strenght training by Zatsiorsky. It will give anyone who is interested a basic understanding about training. The book is tough to read but it is AWSOME!

I guess there is no black and white answer to your iniitial question.

 

[Hugh Gellatts]

"Get the book Science of strenght training by Zatsiorsky."


good stuff.

hey, BTW Yates only took the last, heaviest set of each movement to failure and forced reps. His "warmup" sets were pretty damn heavy with alot of reps too, and not taken to failure. He also took a back off week about every three-four weeks. so he really wasn't doing the mentzer heavy duty program.

 

[Realgains]

Look this is how it is............power lifters and most natural BB trainees and even many juicers do not train to failure.... that is to the point where they cannot finish a rep and get stuck. Most train to he point where the last rep is the last possible rep they can do in good form and sometimes they could do another rep still, especially in the squat and deadlift.

ie: the popular 5X5 routine. The first 2 sets are warm ups then sets 3, 4 and 5 are the work sets with the same weight. The last rep of sets 4 and 5 are usually the very last possible rep that they can do. When the rep is made....just barely....then they rack the weight. Next time out they try to add just a tiny amount of weight to the bar and do the same thing over again. Rests between sets are usually 4 to 5 minutes and at least 3 minutes for small exercises like curls.

The KEY is progressive poundages each week or two....adding a little to the bar each week or two. Intensity is important but weight progression is the key. Intensity at all costs training will only work while on juice and then only for short periods of time. Even Yates never pushed it to the max for more than six weeks at a time before backing off for a while.

It is best in the long run for most men to train in the above manner or in a very similar way. Going until you cannot do another rep in good form is usually enough intensity. Going to failure is okay once in a while and even training past failure has its place, HOWEVER, it is tricky do well, and some cannot do it at all without over training very quickly even if very few sets are done.

All this said it is better by far to train to falure with very few sets per muscle group than to do high volume half assed stuff.
In general keep the volume pretty low most of the time and train to the point where you cannot do another good rep...........this is harder than most people train . Concentrate on progressive poundages and not on intensity per say and you will do well.

 

[Realgains]

"Get the book Science of strenght training by Zatsiorsky."


good stuff.

hey, BTW Yates only took the last, heaviest set of each movement to failure and forced reps. His "warmup" sets were pretty damn heavy with alot of reps too, and not taken to failure. He also took a back off week about every three-four weeks. so he really wasn't doing the mentzer heavy duty program.

Yates's warm up were very limited compaired to most men and they were with pretty low reps bro. He did not believe in fatiguing the muscles with a lot of warm up sets.
Yates took ALL post warm up sets to at least positive failure but only did one or at most two sets per exercise, and never more than three work sets per muscle group.
His routines were definately Mentzer Heavy Duty but with more work sets than Mentzer latter recommended.