You can't grow unless you take Protein shake after workout!

[djeclipse]

also shakes are very vital for post workout like i mentioned

i just read your other post again, and mean to say its not neccesary to have shakes and still be huge, but they are a great alternative for fast absorption, especially when your muscles need a fast absorption

So which is it like everything you've said here you contradict yourself. First it's "vital" and then it's not necessary... which is it?

As I've been saying all along, it can be beneficial but it is NOT vital as you say or 100% necessary as the moron at the health food store was trying to tell me.

You can grow and make gains with or without that ever so crucial post workout shake.

If you actually took the time to read the 5 x 5 website like you say you did... you would find this is what madcow says about diet.

First, a lot of BBers claim that diet is 90% of everything - that's some nice crap to spew when a guy is running the test levels of 20 men, has no performance criteria whatsoever to be judged by, and even a horrible training stimulus will still get him results. The bottom line is that for an experienced natural or someone who isn't living on large dosages of drugs, as long as your diet is "reasonable" you will gain muscle and get stronger only if the training is in line and provides your body with a need for adaptation. I'm not saying diet isn't a big key, what I'm saying is that once it's in the "reasonable" stage for adding muscle - training is king and substantial effort in that area will compensate one far greater than tweaking some trace mineral balance (so the 90% is true only if one assumes people are going to be dumb, unfortunately this is sometimes the case).

This is common sense blocking and tacking stuff. Eat a good balanced diet, get enough protein, vitamins, whatever, drink lots of water, and make sure you supply yourself with enough calories to grow (i.e. body needs energy and nutrients above and beyond what is required to maintain it). Combine that with a good training program and voila - you will get bigger and stronger.

Of course there is one problem. The assumption of a "reasonable" diet and the key factor here is caloric excess. The key factor is not 6 meals a day, nor is it X grams of protein, nor is it weighing one's food and counting every last scrap of it while extracting yolks from egg whites like a baby salamander. It is also not some very expensive trace mineral that you buy for $50 a month at the supplement store. The key is food and quantity. It is caloric excess. If you don't have it, you can't grow. Contrary to popular BBing mythos, it need not even be a clean diet. You can eat quite a bit of garbage and get big and strong (even staying reasonably lean for a lot of people) as long as there is caloric excess. If you choose to eat clean, more power to you but make sure that you get caloric excess or you won't be adding muscle.

What Is Caloric Excess?



Essentially caloric excess is what allows your body to grow and get bigger than it currently is now. How are you going to add another room on your house with only enough wood or concrete to make small maintenance repair on your existing structure?



Intake - Requirement = Caloric Excess (Deficit if negative and maintenance if zero)


Now some people start with a pretty big margin of bodyfat (approaching 20% or more), these people already have significant caloric excess built into their base diet. Most of them find that they can hold their calories constant and for a while they will add muscle and the maintenance of that muscle will use up the excess calories that are currently going toward maintaining their excess fat. This won't last forever but it will likely get them down to the mid to low teens without any issues. Everybody with lower bodyfat needs to add excess to their base diet as this body recomposition lowers bodyfat by nature and it gets harder and harder to pull off. And really even holding bodyfat constant and gaining muscle requires a proportion of the gain to be fat just to maintain the ratio.

Now this sounds like common sense but here is the kicker. There are a lot of people who really put a lot of effort into their diet and maintain fairly lean physiques. They carefully calculate and maintain a constant diet and precise level of caloric excess - nothing wrong with that. The only problem is that their calculations might not fully reflect their activity level or the requirements of their own individual body.

Keep in mind that they are already fairly lean so there is obviously little to no caloric excess in their base diets. Also understand that the lower your BF is, the less willing your body is to add muscle - very logically, muscle is calorically expensive and increases risk of death from famine, if fat stores are already low, it is very hard to convince the body to add muscle (the people with this genetic makeup died millions of years ago). This is also why people loose muscle when cutting (this is all based on natural lifters, steroids enhance certain abilities but don't erase restrictions completely). Granted a total novice can pull it off for a short while if there's a margin present but that's still suboptimal and generally they'd do fine adding excess, gaining a little fat and adding a whole lot more muscle.

here is the link to the actual site.

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/Topics/Diet.htm

 

[mad_monkey59]

As far as the post workout shake thing goes... don't be so gullible dude. Don't believe everything you hear, do some research for yourself.

It is a load of complete bull shit that you abslutley need a Post workout shake after working out in order to grow and gain muscle.

Post work out shakes weren't around back when the cave men were out hunting, they weren't around when the romans started the olympics (which was meant to be a test of human strength). These people were able to gain muscle without protien shales. protien shales weren;t even around when everyones hero Arnold started training. It must have been amiracle that they were able to put on any muscle.

But now, all of a sudden everyone needs a post workout shake or we'll never get any bigger or stronger?? Really think about that for a second.

These companies and magazines you're reading/ listening to are trying to sell you a product, and they will say anything to get you to buy into their theory/ product.

A protien shake after a workout can be beneficial, yes. But is it absolutley necessary, not a chance.

The nest source of protein is meat protein hands down, you should not be relying on a protein shake as your #1 source.

The 'window of opportunity' - when your body utilises nutrients to a much higher degree, for around 30 minutes after a workout... is exactly that, an opportunity, and nothing more.

And you're bang on with the part in bold, meat should form the staple of your diet.

Both the 'window of opportunity' and protein shakes are tools you can utilise, but saying they are necessary is just daft.

I suspect the guy in the shop was just trying to sell you some protein I hope he doesn't really believe what he was saying. Having said that I have had full on arguments with people trying to tell me you can directly turn fat into muscle, now thats just fucking stupid.

 

[GUARDIAN]

U guys still debating about this.....lol

 

[silver_shadow]

no, im 22, 5'10 205, 7 percent bf right now.. I would like to point out i squat, bench, row all year round... just saying the advantages and disadvantages of the both...

oh im sorry dj, u just remind me one of the kids on bodybuilding.com who is a typical kid at the gym, who looks confused at the gym, when they come home they pretend to know everything.. how are u going to disagree with 8 and me, and try to make a bold statement by saying protien shakes are worthless... im sure u kno all abt lifts, but whats your diet like and the rest of your stats..

205 @ 7%? nice e-stats. curl some more - maybe you'll get to 300 @ 5% before summer. then all the chicks are going to drop at your feet when you go to acapulco....

 

[djeclipse]

U guys still debating about this.....lol

Lol, it's monday, back to work, what else are we supposed to do

Hope everyone had a god weekend.

 

[djeclipse]

The 'window of opportunity' - when your body utilises nutrients to a much higher degree, for around 30 minutes after a workout... is exactly that, an opportunity, and nothing more.

And you're bang on with the part in bold, meat should form the staple of your diet.

Both the 'window of opportunity' and protein shakes are tools you can utilise, but saying they are necessary is just daft.

I suspect the guy in the shop was just trying to sell you some protein I hope he doesn't really believe what he was saying. Having said that I have had full on arguments with people trying to tell me you can directly turn fat into muscle, now thats just fucking stupid.

That was my point exactly, it is beneficial to get that fast absorbing protein in our body as soon as possible after a w/o. But if you don't get it, your body will still grow.

Unfortunately this guy really believed the BS he was saying. He literally told me that he's a "body builder" (the guy was not big enough to do any kind of competing), and because he was a body builder he is right.

He said that if I didn't take a protein shake right after working out there was no point in me even going to the gym!

What a jack ass.

 

[djeclipse]

205 @ 7%? nice e-stats. curl some more - maybe you'll get to 300 @ 5% before summer. then all the chicks are going to drop at your feet when you go to acapulco....

lol Pwn3D

 

[silverskyline]

U guys still debating about this.....lol

Hahaha wow been about a week now!

Yep Monday back to work may as well keep it rollin...I think you need a PWO shake to grow! if you dont have one you may as well just crawl into a hole and never come back out!

 

[djeclipse]

Hahaha wow been about a week now!

Yep Monday back to work may as well keep it rollin...I think you need a PWO shake to grow! if you dont have one you may as well just crawl into a hole and never come back out!

please, what do you know? My internet weight is 320 5% bf, that means I know everything!

 

[silver_shadow]

please, what do you know? My internet weight is 320 5% bf, that means I know everything!

damn you guys are getting e-bigger.... i've got to get to 340 e-lbs at 3% e-bf

 

[Porportional]

dude are u calling me out, cuz ur manboobs and fat are really confusing me, what are you 170 25% bf?

 

[djeclipse]

damn you guys are getting e-bigger.... i've got to get to 340 e-lbs at 3% e-bf

Keep working you will get there soon. I'd say probably 1-2 month's as long as you do enough curls.

 

[Porportional]

drop the whole curling thing, nobody said that, that was all they did.. not funny anymore, obviously me and 8 hit core lifts, but we like to focus on arms themselves too (isolation)

 

[mad_monkey59]

damn you guys are getting e-bigger.... i've got to get to 340 e-lbs at 3% e-bf

Man, you guys must be frickin ripped, you must be drinking shakes in between your cable flyes and bicep curl superset...

drink protein during sets or you don't grow bitch... fact!

I gotta go gets me some mo creatine!

 

[silverskyline]

I can't handle this thread any longer.

I gotta go get my e strenght on somewhere else.

peace

 

[djeclipse]

Man, you guys must be frickin ripped, you must be drinking shakes in between your cable flyes and bicep curl superset...

drink protein during sets or you don't grow bitch... fact!

I gotta go gets me some mo creatine!

Ya, fo sho, crEatIne is the shit YO!

 

[Azinine]

When they discovered the vaccine for the common cold...

Why didn't anyone tell me about this?

 

[sinnerstefan]

Hi all, it's been a while, well over a year. For those that know me, I tore my achilies tendon playing soccer and went downhill from there. I just started to get off my lazy ass and get back to the gym.

Anyway, I went to Hercks a local suplement store and the guy told me that you can NOT gain any muscle unless you have a protien shake (isolate) right after you work out. Even if you go home and eat lots of protein, you will not grow or gain muscle unless you have a protein shake. And there was no point of working out since your muscles will not be able to repair themselves so your work out is pointless if you don't have the shake.

When he said this I literally started laughing at him and asked him if he was serious.

I asked what did people do before the invent of these magical protein shakes?

He said "I'm a body builder, I know what I am talking about, if you don't have a protein shake right after working out you won't get bigger.

This guy really believed this nonsense, it was quite comical, I simply told him he was full of shit and left.

Anyway, it feels good to be back, I'm on week 7 of a 5 x 5 and though I'm far away form where I left off before I got hurt, I am on my way.

Cheers.

LOL

Welcome back.




Steph

 

[silver_shadow]

dude are u calling me out, cuz ur manboobs and fat are really confusing me, what are you 170 25% bf?

lol that is such a fucking kiddy thing to say... here you are talking about dj being that kid from bb.com, while talking like some kid on orkut/myspace/facebook... which is the only place i get to hear that crap for a 2 yr old pic. that pic has me at 230lbs and 17%, my current stats are 215 at around 13%. the new pic is about 6 mths old. now where the fuck are any of your pics to even prove that you workout? but here you are talking crap behind the anonymity of the internet. go back to facebook asshole.

 

[djeclipse]

LOL

Welcome back.




Steph

Thanks,
Cheers

 

[djeclipse]

lol that is such a fucking kiddy thing to say... here you are talking about dj being that kid from bb.com, while talking like some kid on orkut/myspace/facebook... which is the only place i get to hear that crap for a 2 yr old pic. that pic has me at 230lbs and 17%, my current stats are 215 at around 13%. the new pic is about 6 mths old. now where the fuck are any of your pics to even prove that you workout? but here you are talking crap behind the anonymity of the internet. go back to facebook asshole.

Porportional is literally the definition of living irony/ hypocracy. He talks shit about everyone that doesn't agree with him, he changes his mind/ says something different every time he makes a post. He claims we are all small and fat...

Not to mention he is a racist.

But hs has shown us that he is one of the ignorant kids that you see on BB.com, the ones he tries to say we are. The tools at the gym doing 30 sets of curls trying to get "shreaded" doing behind the head upside down curls because he read that it works the upper, outter left side of the bicep in a BB mag.

And the worst pat is he tries to give advice here that will get people hurt and then bitches when you tell them about the risk in performing a lift that way..

 

[Porportional]

kkkkkkkkkkkkk

 

[mad_monkey59]

lol call me out okk... here is me.. on the right... http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj291/blazay33/?action=view&current=n507367613_361203_281122.jpg 19 years old, 205 7 percent body fat like i said b4... want one of the abs too lol

I dont think anyone gives a crap mate..

Honestly the best advice I can give you is shut up and listen, if you want to bring some thing up then do it in a structrued way, there are a lot of people here who will make that pic look like a school girl with her boyfriend.

 

[sinnerstefan]

I dont think anyone gives a crap mate..

Honestly the best advice I can give you is shut up and listen, if you want to bring some thing up then do it in a structrued way, there are a lot of people here who will make that pic look like a school girl with her boyfriend.

LOL !

+10




S

 

[dabuffguy]

I dont think anyone gives a crap mate..

Honestly the best advice I can give you is shut up and listen, if you want to bring some thing up then do it in a structrued way, there are a lot of people here who will make that pic look like a school girl with her boyfriend.

I canbelieve this is still going.

+1 That pic looks like every other high school kid that worked out for 6 weeks. Yay!

 

[djeclipse]

I dont think anyone gives a crap mate..

Honestly the best advice I can give you is shut up and listen, if you want to bring some thing up then do it in a structrued way, there are a lot of people here who will make that pic look like a school girl with her boyfriend.

+1 That pic looks like every other high school kid that worked out for 6 weeks. Yay!

Ha, cheers to that.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Porportional]

I dont think anyone gives a crap mate..

Honestly the best advice I can give you is shut up and listen, if you want to bring some thing up then do it in a structrued way, there are a lot of people here who will make that pic look like a school girl with her boyfriend.

+1 i was being called out by silver to post up my pic so i did, i listed my stats, dont give a fuck what anyone has to say because being natural for 205 7 percent body fat is real fucking hard to do, especially when in 9th grade i was 120.. and for being 19 i dont think thats bad at all... i never even intended to keep this thread going this long, and i did try to apologize to dj, but he is a hardheaded little bitch... and oh yea the kid to the left of me has been lifting for 6 months now.. im out of this thread, i hope noone even bothers replying

 

[dabuffguy]

+1 i was being called out by silver to post up my pic so i did, i listed my stats, dont give a fuck what anyone has to say because being natural for 205 7 percent body fat is real fucking hard to do, especially when in 9th grade i was 120.. and for being 19 i dont think thats bad at all... i never even intended to keep this thread going this long, and i did try to apologize to dj, but he is a hardheaded little bitch... and oh yea the kid to the left of me has been lifting for 6 months now.. im out of this thread, i hope noone even bothers replying

Oh yeah, well I've been training for 2 years. Whoopity doo for me! lol.

Don't worry about DJ, he was just showing you that a protein shake isn't vital post workout. I take one, but then I just eat anyways. Protein shake is beneficial, but I could gain 97% of what I do with food and no PWO shake. that extra 3% is worth it though.

 

[Porportional]

ok i agree with u, i think thats what ive been saying all along.. that a protien shake prior to food intake after a work out does have its benefits because of the fast release of protien.. that extra 3% makes up 100%, so knowing that im goin 97% to me is unsatisfactory. the catabolic state is where your body is growing the most, fibers are rebuilding, so to me its crucial that i have a shake just because of the fast release.. i dont know why this turned into a 5x5 vs isolation thread because they both of have their own benefits, determining what kind of goals you are trying to reach

 

[djeclipse]

+1 i was being called out by silver to post up my pic so i did, i listed my stats, dont give a fuck what anyone has to say because being natural for 205 7 percent body fat is real fucking hard to do, especially when in 9th grade i was 120.. and for being 19 i dont think thats bad at all... i never even intended to keep this thread going this long, and i did try to apologize to dj, but he is a hardheaded little bitch... and oh yea the kid to the left of me has been lifting for 6 months now.. im out of this thread, i hope noone even bothers replying

There you go again. You came in this thread and called out everyone, started talking shit, making claims that weren't true. When someone called you on it instead of educating yourself thanking us, you called everyone out again, trying to insult us, put down other members, talking about your BS stats, even making racist comments.

You're the type of kid that goes to the club thinking you're all that, you talk shit to the wrong person and wake up in the hospital the next day wondering what happened.

One day you'll grow up and realize that this is not the way to go about doing things. Until then good luck because you won't learn a thing.

Go back and re-read this thread, if you drop the ego you may actually learn something. Same goes with the rest of this board. When someone tells you the movement you just suggested to someone was not proper and greatly increases chance of injury, instead of getting all pissy learn form it.

Anyway, this thread is pretty much over, it was good for a laugh or 2 at least... now we can lay it to rest, lol

 

[GUARDIAN]

this thread has taken a turn for the worse.

proportional - watch the insults.

There you go again. You came in this thread and called out everyone, started talking shit, making claims that weren't true. When someone called you on it instead of educating yourself thanking us, you called everyone out again, trying to insult us, put down other members, talking about your BS stats, even making racist comments.

You're the type of kid that goes to the club thinking you're all that, you talk shit to the wrong person and wake up in the hospital the next day wondering what happened.

One day you'll grow up and realize that this is not the way to go about doing things. Until then good luck because you won't learn a thing.

Go back and re-read this thread, if you drop the ego you may actually learn something. Same goes with the rest of this board. When someone tells you the movement you just suggested to someone was not proper and greatly increases chance of injury, instead of getting all pissy learn form it.

Anyway, this thread is pretty much over, it was good for a laugh or 2 at least... now we can lay it to rest, lol

 

[dabuffguy]

this thread has taken a turn for the worse.

proportional - watch the insults.

You go straight to hell!


Just kidding