You can't grow unless you take Protein shake after workout!

[djeclipse]

also shakes are very vital for post workout like i mentioned

i just read your other post again, and mean to say its not neccesary to have shakes and still be huge, but they are a great alternative for fast absorption, especially when your muscles need a fast absorption

So which is it like everything you've said here you contradict yourself. First it's "vital" and then it's not necessary... which is it?

As I've been saying all along, it can be beneficial but it is NOT vital as you say or 100% necessary as the moron at the health food store was trying to tell me.

You can grow and make gains with or without that ever so crucial post workout shake.

If you actually took the time to read the 5 x 5 website like you say you did... you would find this is what madcow says about diet.

First, a lot of BBers claim that diet is 90% of everything - that's some nice crap to spew when a guy is running the test levels of 20 men, has no performance criteria whatsoever to be judged by, and even a horrible training stimulus will still get him results. The bottom line is that for an experienced natural or someone who isn't living on large dosages of drugs, as long as your diet is "reasonable" you will gain muscle and get stronger only if the training is in line and provides your body with a need for adaptation. I'm not saying diet isn't a big key, what I'm saying is that once it's in the "reasonable" stage for adding muscle - training is king and substantial effort in that area will compensate one far greater than tweaking some trace mineral balance (so the 90% is true only if one assumes people are going to be dumb, unfortunately this is sometimes the case).

This is common sense blocking and tacking stuff. Eat a good balanced diet, get enough protein, vitamins, whatever, drink lots of water, and make sure you supply yourself with enough calories to grow (i.e. body needs energy and nutrients above and beyond what is required to maintain it). Combine that with a good training program and voila - you will get bigger and stronger.

Of course there is one problem. The assumption of a "reasonable" diet and the key factor here is caloric excess. The key factor is not 6 meals a day, nor is it X grams of protein, nor is it weighing one's food and counting every last scrap of it while extracting yolks from egg whites like a baby salamander. It is also not some very expensive trace mineral that you buy for $50 a month at the supplement store. The key is food and quantity. It is caloric excess. If you don't have it, you can't grow. Contrary to popular BBing mythos, it need not even be a clean diet. You can eat quite a bit of garbage and get big and strong (even staying reasonably lean for a lot of people) as long as there is caloric excess. If you choose to eat clean, more power to you but make sure that you get caloric excess or you won't be adding muscle.

What Is Caloric Excess?



Essentially caloric excess is what allows your body to grow and get bigger than it currently is now. How are you going to add another room on your house with only enough wood or concrete to make small maintenance repair on your existing structure?



Intake - Requirement = Caloric Excess (Deficit if negative and maintenance if zero)


Now some people start with a pretty big margin of bodyfat (approaching 20% or more), these people already have significant caloric excess built into their base diet. Most of them find that they can hold their calories constant and for a while they will add muscle and the maintenance of that muscle will use up the excess calories that are currently going toward maintaining their excess fat. This won't last forever but it will likely get them down to the mid to low teens without any issues. Everybody with lower bodyfat needs to add excess to their base diet as this body recomposition lowers bodyfat by nature and it gets harder and harder to pull off. And really even holding bodyfat constant and gaining muscle requires a proportion of the gain to be fat just to maintain the ratio.

Now this sounds like common sense but here is the kicker. There are a lot of people who really put a lot of effort into their diet and maintain fairly lean physiques. They carefully calculate and maintain a constant diet and precise level of caloric excess - nothing wrong with that. The only problem is that their calculations might not fully reflect their activity level or the requirements of their own individual body.

Keep in mind that they are already fairly lean so there is obviously little to no caloric excess in their base diets. Also understand that the lower your BF is, the less willing your body is to add muscle - very logically, muscle is calorically expensive and increases risk of death from famine, if fat stores are already low, it is very hard to convince the body to add muscle (the people with this genetic makeup died millions of years ago). This is also why people loose muscle when cutting (this is all based on natural lifters, steroids enhance certain abilities but don't erase restrictions completely). Granted a total novice can pull it off for a short while if there's a margin present but that's still suboptimal and generally they'd do fine adding excess, gaining a little fat and adding a whole lot more muscle.

here is the link to the actual site.

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/Topics/Diet.htm

 

[mad_monkey59]

As far as the post workout shake thing goes... don't be so gullible dude. Don't believe everything you hear, do some research for yourself.

It is a load of complete bull shit that you abslutley need a Post workout shake after working out in order to grow and gain muscle.

Post work out shakes weren't around back when the cave men were out hunting, they weren't around when the romans started the olympics (which was meant to be a test of human strength). These people were able to gain muscle without protien shales. protien shales weren;t even around when everyones hero Arnold started training. It must have been amiracle that they were able to put on any muscle.

But now, all of a sudden everyone needs a post workout shake or we'll never get any bigger or stronger?? Really think about that for a second.

These companies and magazines you're reading/ listening to are trying to sell you a product, and they will say anything to get you to buy into their theory/ product.

A protien shake after a workout can be beneficial, yes. But is it absolutley necessary, not a chance.

The nest source of protein is meat protein hands down, you should not be relying on a protein shake as your #1 source.

The 'window of opportunity' - when your body utilises nutrients to a much higher degree, for around 30 minutes after a workout... is exactly that, an opportunity, and nothing more.

And you're bang on with the part in bold, meat should form the staple of your diet.

Both the 'window of opportunity' and protein shakes are tools you can utilise, but saying they are necessary is just daft.

I suspect the guy in the shop was just trying to sell you some protein I hope he doesn't really believe what he was saying. Having said that I have had full on arguments with people trying to tell me you can directly turn fat into muscle, now thats just fucking stupid.

 

[GUARDIAN]

U guys still debating about this.....lol

 

[silver_shadow]

no, im 22, 5'10 205, 7 percent bf right now.. I would like to point out i squat, bench, row all year round... just saying the advantages and disadvantages of the both...

oh im sorry dj, u just remind me one of the kids on bodybuilding.com who is a typical kid at the gym, who looks confused at the gym, when they come home they pretend to know everything.. how are u going to disagree with 8 and me, and try to make a bold statement by saying protien shakes are worthless... im sure u kno all abt lifts, but whats your diet like and the rest of your stats..

205 @ 7%? nice e-stats. curl some more - maybe you'll get to 300 @ 5% before summer. then all the chicks are going to drop at your feet when you go to acapulco....

 

[djeclipse]

U guys still debating about this.....lol

Lol, it's monday, back to work, what else are we supposed to do

Hope everyone had a god weekend.

 

[djeclipse]

The 'window of opportunity' - when your body utilises nutrients to a much higher degree, for around 30 minutes after a workout... is exactly that, an opportunity, and nothing more.

And you're bang on with the part in bold, meat should form the staple of your diet.

Both the 'window of opportunity' and protein shakes are tools you can utilise, but saying they are necessary is just daft.

I suspect the guy in the shop was just trying to sell you some protein I hope he doesn't really believe what he was saying. Having said that I have had full on arguments with people trying to tell me you can directly turn fat into muscle, now thats just fucking stupid.

That was my point exactly, it is beneficial to get that fast absorbing protein in our body as soon as possible after a w/o. But if you don't get it, your body will still grow.

Unfortunately this guy really believed the BS he was saying. He literally told me that he's a "body builder" (the guy was not big enough to do any kind of competing), and because he was a body builder he is right.

He said that if I didn't take a protein shake right after working out there was no point in me even going to the gym!

What a jack ass.

 

[djeclipse]

205 @ 7%? nice e-stats. curl some more - maybe you'll get to 300 @ 5% before summer. then all the chicks are going to drop at your feet when you go to acapulco....

lol Pwn3D

 

[silverskyline]

U guys still debating about this.....lol

Hahaha wow been about a week now!

Yep Monday back to work may as well keep it rollin...I think you need a PWO shake to grow! if you dont have one you may as well just crawl into a hole and never come back out!

 

[djeclipse]

Hahaha wow been about a week now!

Yep Monday back to work may as well keep it rollin...I think you need a PWO shake to grow! if you dont have one you may as well just crawl into a hole and never come back out!

please, what do you know? My internet weight is 320 5% bf, that means I know everything!

 

[silver_shadow]

please, what do you know? My internet weight is 320 5% bf, that means I know everything!

damn you guys are getting e-bigger.... i've got to get to 340 e-lbs at 3% e-bf