Why the AMES test does not say DNP is safe

[Fonz]

From Andy13:

By now, every one knows that DNP acts at the powerhouse of the cell, the mitochondria. DNP causes the disipation of the proton motive force which makes ATP synthesis by oxidative phosphorilation less efficient. That means that your electron transport system of generating the proton gradient that drives the synthesis of ATP has to work a whole lot harder to make the same amount of ATP.. That's exactly why your metabolism gets boosted!

The problem here is that all the DNA in the cell is not entirely in the nucleus. Mitochondria have their own DNA as well. And mitochondrial DNP codes for some of the mitochondrial proteins that aid in metabolism and a whole host of other things.

What happens during oxidative phosphorilation (making ATP from the proton gradient) is that, in the end, molecular oxygen gets reduced to water. Sometimes, this doesn't go so well and peroxides instead of water form in the mitochondria. These are harmful free radicals that cause mutations in mitochondrial DNA. So, you say, "no problem, I'll just load up on my alpha lipoic acid and it's all good, right?'' Unfortunetly, WRONG. NO antioxidant can enter the mitochondria inner membrane. It's impermeable to everything but O2 water and CO2. And free radical formed inside the mitochondria runs wild inside changing everything from the membrane to the mitochondrial DNA.

While cancer is associated with NUCLEAR DNA mutations, parkinson's disease, general aging, alsheimer's and the things about old people that make them OLD (like reduced motor skills, hearing loss) is caused by mutations in mitochondrial DNA.

People who have a genetic predisposition to diseases like parkinson's, alzheimer's and huntington's disease tend to fuck up that reduction of molecular oxygen to water a bit more often that others. These people should re-think DNP use.

Mitochondrial protection:

5g ALCar + 600mg R-ALA + 100mg Co-Q10 + 3g Vit.C + 800IU Vit. E.

That protects your mitochondria from oxidative damage.

If you want, you can substitute Co-Q10 for idebenone(More potent synthetic form) 45-60mg.

Oh and btw, R-ALA recycles both Vit. C and Vit. E and is itself both fat and water soluble(A phospholipid).

Fonz

 

[NFG123]

Thanks for posting this man, can't wait to get some of the mods' responces on it.

-sk

Oldie but a goodie.

NFG

 

[DIVISION]

So basically what I gather from that is AMES is not the correct test to guage accurately if DNP has the ability to cause cancer. Great read and interesting in that biochemistry has so many correlational components that we might never truly find a link from DNP to cancer.

DIV

 

[GoldenDelicious]

i dont know where i was reading it but DNP use does indeed cause a rise in p53 expression, which as andy said earlier on, warrants further investigation

at the end of the day it is interesting to take a look at the lifespans of the men who were exposed to the stuff back in WW2...again i dont know where i was reading it but there was not a significant deviation in their overall life span, which i believe was actually in the 60+ year range

furthermore, in the work done by...bloody hell that american guy who put together most of the DNP information back in the 30s.....aaargh it was him and another guy....anyway i did not see any indication of any increased incidence of anything except cataract formation in women. the carcinogenicity of phenols would have been well known even then, and i would assume taht a man of his calibre would have examined the issue. although assumptions arent the greatest things to make in the realm of medical science. someone with a working subscription to medline, download som articles for me

personally the issues for me regarding DNP is the structural and chemical similarity to known carcinogens - namely the other phenols - and also the p53 induction. apart from that, i think that DNP has earned a very sinister name because 1) it works, and works very very well, and as i have seen professionally, the better something works, the "stronger" people think it is, and therefore, the more dangerous, and 2) it has been associated with numerous deaths in the past, DESPITE the fact that the mechanism by which death was caused (overheating, dehydration, hypoglycaemia, coma and organ collapse) is independent of the cancer issue that we are talking about in the here and now

at the end of the day, many, many people used DNP in the past, with few ill effects that were discernible in and post analysis of the study group - although importantly, i have not seen the study protocols used by that american researcher

something else to consider is that there are many other electron uncouplers used commonly throughout the world - the illicit party drugs MDMA (ecstasy) and also, PMA (which is another drug made by a lot of bozos thinking that they have actually made MDMA, when reallym they screwed it all up and made the wrong thing) and really, we are talking about some serious long term, fairly high dosing- i personally know people who do it every single weekend, and sometimes during the week - and i travel in fairly tame circles, so im sure lots of other people use these drugs even more heavily. anyway the issue of plain old electron uncoupling and resultant oxidative stress etc is quite a common phenomenon, and i havnt heard anything too overt in terms of malignancy...and believe me, if it was an issue, the various lobby groups would be screaming blue murder about it. i just dont see it as being as significant as DNPs structural similarity to other phenols, is all.

anyway. interesting thread. cutting edge has a few of these, that got quite interesting

cheers

 

[bigrand]

Underexpression of p53 (or a null expression) is what we dont want since active p53 regulates apoptosis. A nonfucntional p53 is seen in about half of all cancers. It can be somewhat reactivated using a retro-inverso copy of wildtype p53 attatched to TAT (surface protein from HIV virus) to shuttle it into the cell.
The functional groups attatched to benzene rings and phenol can alter the compound to make it less reactive with DNA and less carcinogenic, that seems to be the case with 2,4

 

[Andy13]

Underexpression of p53 (or a null expression) is what we dont want since active p53 regulates apoptosis. A nonfucntional p53 is seen in about half of all cancers. It can be somewhat reactivated using a retro-inverso copy of wildtype p53 attatched to TAT (surface protein from HIV virus) to shuttle it into the cell.
The functional groups attatched to benzene rings and phenol can alter the compound to make it less reactive with DNA and less carcinogenic, that seems to be the case with 2,4

Where did you come from?

 

[bigrand]

LOL, whats that mean bro, ive been here forever?!
More importantly, where have YOU been!

 

[Andy13]

LOL, whats that mean bro, ive been here forever?!
More importantly, where have YOU been!

On hiatus… Searching for the meaning of life


I can't believe how old this thread is.... Still a good one, IMO.

 

[LoneTree]

DNP is a non-coupler.
When you burn calories, energy is trapped in the body in the form of highenergy phosphate bonds (ATP). When energy is used, these high energy phosphate bonds are used up to create AMP or ADP.
When you use DNP, ATP is not created, and energy is lost as heat.
DNP kills by cause high fever.
There had been several deaths, mostly with high fever, with DNP before it was pulled from the market.

 

[bigrand]

Yep, specifically in the ETC, the H+ gradient is dissrupted and the H+ are released from the membrane=entropy.

Yeah, i was looking through my old posts and saw this one. With all the posts on DNP and the lack of knowledge of people using it latley, i figured id bump it up for a read.

I too look for the meaning of life, and my BS.