Who else prefers girls with serious boyfriends?

[plornive]

Why for goodness sake , they are not rampages ,they are perfectly logical concepts. There certainly was no hate or even emotion in them , prerequisites for a "rampage"

I'm not sure why you are taking issue with this, but here's why I called them rampages: It somehow seems like you just quickly blurted the initial comparison to murder in order to "win" the argument. However, the point you quoted above your statement was not about whether we should seek justice for cheating. I was basically saying that cheating is an unchangeable part of society and also sometimes necessary, regardless of whether we take action against it.

Ah but there is the point , was the relationship healthy before or after you slept with her ? All couples are exposed to temptation on both sides, by you putting your ass in the way , did you not knowingly contribute to the worsening and hence the paucity of its health?

You are right. We assign causation discretely for practicality, but in reality we affect each other in many direct and indirect ways. You will have to go further with this, however.

Explain please , "par for the course" ???? How exactly does that work?

In some situations, cheating is the only way a relationship will continue. Do you agree that this is true for a shaky relationship?

Arguments ? These are not simply arguments , where did u think society originated from , we were not all simply designed to be little Englishmen pal , there were good strong reasons why the set of modern values were instilled in us , and the empirical (that is to say not contrived as per "environment" but natural) evidence that they are righteous is there. Marraige is little more than an expression of a legal right within the boundaries of a "long-term" sexual relationship , I notice you did not bother to deal with the societal aspect of the damage you are doing to your partner .

Values serve their purpose even while their supporters stray. They are, in part, fabricated by confidence and (dare I say) faith. Strong belief in marriage serves it's purpose even when people cheat.

If it is your choice to believe these values are absolutely correct, more power to you.

 

[plornive]

One more point:

The current girl I am reaming relentlessly will not leave her boyfriend. She says that he is a good guy and will make a good husband (that just makes ya want to have a monogamous relationship, eh?). I am probably sustaining their relationship. Good or bad? You decide.

 

[Mandinka2]

I'm not sure why you are taking issue with this, but here's why I called them rampages: It somehow seems like you just quickly blurted the initial comparison to murder in order to "win" the argument. However, the point you quoted above your statement was not about whether we should seek justice for cheating. I was basically saying that cheating is an unchangeable part of society and also sometimes necessary, regardless of whether we take action against it.

Sorry , in that case the word "rampage" is ill chosen , there is no winning here , I seek merely to help you see that you might be causing damage to at least one other person and to re-evaluate your actions in the light of that knowledge. I do not see how cheating is "unchangeable" , it is as "unchangeable" as other facets of human behaviour , murder and incest being other facets. But the fact that it exists odes not mean that it should be accepted. Also you frequently mention that it is "neccessary" , neccessary for what and to whom I wonder ? I can think of no single instance where cheating is "neccessary". But perhaps you can postulate many , I'd be glad to hear of them.

You are right. We assign causation discretely for practicality, but in reality we affect each other in many direct and indirect ways. You will have to go further with this, however.

I would say that u are not attributing causation for practicality , but rather to avoid the moral issue that you are damaging someone else. As I mentioned earlier , u are neccessarily bringing suffering upon at least another person , regardless as to whether the person is aware of the source of that suffering.

In some situations, cheating is the only way a relationship will continue. Do you agree that this is true for a shaky relationship?

No I don't , of course it may appeal to a selfish and ultimately destructive individual to have more than one person at their behest , it is without doubt exciting , people are selfish , that is the nature of the animal , however when that selfishness spills over into interfering in another individual's happiness then we have issues. To put it in an objective fashion , is the utility caused by you and her greater satisfaction equal or greater to the pain and damage caused by the above. TRust me when I tell you from the very deepest recesses of my being as a person (I have been on both sides) as well as from social observations - and there are numerous examples on this board that this is not the case. U are sending another poor bastard to hell , someone who has done you no harm at all.

Values serve their purpose even while their supporters stray. They are, in part, fabricated by confidence and (dare I say) faith. Strong belief in marriage serves it's purpose even when people cheat.[/B]

This is entirely confusing when you do not offer at least anecdotal evidence , their purpose is to stop individuals straying , therefore de facto failure is reached when they stray! Fabricated by confidence ? How ? By faith , I presume you mean religious faith , but even there so called undeveloped societies and religions practice polygamy , BUT ALL THE WHILE IN AN OPEN AND HONEST FASHION i.e. without betrayal.

If it is your choice to believe these values are absolutely correct, more power to you. [/B]

I do not believe in choice as a matter of fact (or at least not in the sense that you imply) , I believe in consistentcy and apply that to every facet of my life. Initially consistentcy began as a choice but once that was made , all other things became apparent from logic.

 

[Mandinka2]

One more point:

The current girl I am reaming relentlessly will not leave her boyfriend. She says that he is a good guy and will make a good husband (that just makes ya want to have a monogamous relationship, eh?). I am probably sustaining their relationship. Good or bad? You decide.

No , it is far worse than that , this other person also deserves to live and breathe , he is shackled to this woman and she obviously has designs on him. She and you are defrauding him (trust , love , honesty , sincerity) there exists at the very basic level a deceit , it is your decision and sadly not mine as to whether you wish to prolong this grotesquerie , personally , im all for the anonymous note scenario here , at least then you will shorten his misery. Why is it I wonder that you feel that she wishes to marry this person ? Do you not think that he deserves to find out rather than continue for the next umpteen years like that..... they say that mercy is the mark of a great leader.

 

[plornive]

Sorry , in that case the word "rampage" is ill chosen , there is no winning here , I seek merely to help you see that you might be causing damage to at least one other person and to re-evaluate your actions in the light of that knowledge. I do not see how cheating is "unchangeable" , it is as "unchangeable" as other facets of human behaviour , murder and incest being other facets. But the fact that it exists odes not mean that it should be accepted. Also you frequently mention that it is "neccessary" , neccessary for what and to whom I wonder ? I can think of no single instance where cheating is "neccessary". But perhaps you can postulate many , I'd be glad to hear of them.

Something is necessary if it must exist. If something is pervasive, it definitely exists. Therefore it is necessary.

I thank you for enlightening me. I am not being sarcastic, because you have shown me a few things I didn't see.

I would say that u are not attributing causation for practicality , but rather to avoid the moral issue that you are damaging someone else. As I mentioned earlier , u are neccessarily bringing suffering upon at least another person , regardless as to whether the person is aware of the source of that suffering.

Like I said, you have a hard time seeing things with another set of values. I know I am bringing suffering upon this person. Should I not hit on a woman I find attractive because I would indirectly hurt her lover? What about my desires?

No I don't , of course it may appeal to a selfish and ultimately destructive individual to have more than one person at their behest , it is without doubt exciting , people are selfish , that is the nature of the animal , however when that selfishness spills over into interfering in another individual's happiness then we have issues. To put it in an objective fashion , is the utility caused by you and her greater satisfaction equal or greater to the pain and damage caused by the above. TRust me when I tell you from the very deepest recesses of my being as a person (I have been on both sides) as well as from social observations - and there are numerous examples on this board that this is not the case. U are sending another poor bastard to hell , someone who has done you no harm at all.

Society can and should not be changed. If everyone knew the truth, society would crumble. Here I am, so what am I supposed to do? I don't really care about this guy, but to address his misery, it is his responsibility to protect his worth.

Informing him of his situation would be a total turn-off for me and his chick. Nuh uh....

This is entirely confusing when you do not offer at least anecdotal evidence , their purpose is to stop individuals straying , therefore de facto failure is reached when they stray! Fabricated by confidence ? How ? By faith , I presume you mean religious faith , but even there so called undeveloped societies and religions practice polygamy , BUT ALL THE WHILE IN AN OPEN AND HONEST FASHION i.e. without betrayal.

I reallize you may think I am avoiding the issue, but I hold that morals are not universally true. They are dogmas, ideologies and faiths the overall serve their purpose even when some people stray. There has never been a time in history when people did not cheat on their lovers. Yet, the ideals of monogamy cause many people to stay monogamous. See in this context, morals are tools of society. I see no reason to believe they are absolutes or universals, although it serves a purpose for some people to see them as such.

I do not believe in choice as a matter of fact (or at least not in the sense that you imply) , I believe in consistentcy and apply that to every facet of my life. Initially consistentcy began as a choice but once that was made , all other things became apparent from logic.

Then it must cause you pain that your reality is not consistent with your morals.

 

[plornive]

No , it is far worse than that , this other person also deserves to live and breathe , he is shackled to this woman and she obviously has designs on him. She and you are defrauding him (trust , love , honesty , sincerity) there exists at the very basic level a deceit , it is your decision and sadly not mine as to whether you wish to prolong this grotesquerie , personally , im all for the anonymous note scenario here , at least then you will shorten his misery. Why is it I wonder that you feel that she wishes to marry this person ? Do you not think that he deserves to find out rather than continue for the next umpteen years like that..... they say that mercy is the mark of a great leader.

I see where you are coming from, but in my view this is hopeless.

I could probably fuck his girl right in front of him and he would eventually fall into the same pattern as he is in now. You can't just enlighten people by showing them the truth. You must beat it into them if anything.

 

[Mandinka2]

Something is necessary if it must exist. If something is pervasive, it definitely exists. Therefore it is necessary.

I thank you for enlightening me. I am not being sarcastic, because you have shown me a few things I didn't see.

OK , I'll just have time to deal with this , cos its late and I've things to do still. "Something is neccessary if it must exist" , hmmmm , nope , something is neccessary if there is a NEED for it to exist. That ain't logical man. I NEED to bone the chic is different from saying I MUST bone this chic. One more example, spiders are pervasive (I could quote you an intersting stat that there are 6 million spiders in Ireland per hectare of land) , but because they are pervasive and they exist does not mean either that they NEED to or MUST exist.
I did not seek to enlighten you although I am flattered , I only hope that you see the value of another person's sadness and begin to realise that you might just be condemning someone...

 

[Snarf]

I think morphing this thread into a debate regarding absolutes and referencing cultural differences as a rational to do what you do, is a mistake.

We are all products of our ancestry and environment and our reactions (or inability to consider alternate reactions in your opinion) do not need to be defended. The bottom line is that what you are doing is wrong and hurtful. No degree of rationalization on your part has any affect on the pain felt by the cheated boyfriend.

If this is hard to understand, then consider that there must be things/relationships in your own life that you value very much. Perhaps the relationships you have with friends or family are things that are very important to you. What if one of those relationships was taken from you. What if someone killed a family member of yours, as an extremem example. Would their rational of their actions provide you with any comfort? Would your rage and anger be dimished if they told you that you were just being narrow minded in your consideration of the situation and that in some societies, the death of a family member is celebrated as a great passing?

Empathy, the act of understanding and feeling another person's emotions can be difficult, and you are rationalizing your way out of that with Junior College Psychobabble.

To put it more basically, if you fucked my girl it would be hard to spout these ratonalizations with a crow bar sticking out of the side of your head.

 

[plornive]

I think morphing this thread into a debate regarding absolutes and referencing cultural differences as a rational to do what you do, is a mistake.

We are all products of our ancestry and environment and our reactions (or inability to consider alternate reactions in your opinion) do not need to be defended. The bottom line is that what you are doing is wrong and hurtful. No degree of rationalization on your part has any affect on the pain felt by the cheated boyfriend.

If this is hard to understand, then consider that there must be things/relationships in your own life that you value very much. Perhaps the relationships you have with friends or family are things that are very important to you. What if one of those relationships was taken from you. What if someone killed a family member of yours, as an extremem example. Would their rational of their actions provide you with any comfort? Would your rage and anger be dimished if they told you that you were just being narrow minded in your consideration of the situation and that in some societies, the death of a family member is celebrated as a great passing?

Empathy, the act of understanding and feeling another person's emotions can be difficult, and you are rationalizing your way out of that with Junior College Psychobabble.

To put it more basically, if you fucked my girl it would be hard to spout these ratonalizations with a crow bar sticking out of the side of your head.

Dude.

Honestly, if I met your girl, I'm sure nothing like that would happen for a multitude of reasons. When someone has a strong relationship it is evident. When someone is trustworthy it is evident.

I just talked with this girl, and she indicated that her boyfriend pays for everything. Lunch, every day. All of their food. All of their belongings. Yes that kind of disgusts me. I am actually thinking of taking her for a ride and scaring the shit out of her.

And honestly, I can't think of any relationship, that if tarnished or removed, would hurt me dearly (aside from business relationships). But I understand that I am probably hurting this guy. I'm not ignorant of that fact.

Maybe this guy should examine his relationship. He is allowing this to happen. He is not demanding his rights. He may be getting what is coming to him, good or bad. Sadly, I doubt he will change and I doubt that anything will prevent whatever woman he is with from cheating on him (this is not a justification).

Further, I DON'T think it is obvious that when someone reads this post they should immediately blame me. Sure, I am hurting this guy. So what. What's significant is that I am trying to examine it.

Peace.

 

[plornive]

By the way, nice tits.