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Which is more important for growth/recovery: FOOD or REST?
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R
roidpuple
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Tom Treutlein said:
that is compete bullshit huh.. ha ha ok i will fill ya in tomorrow.. with my "bull shit"
R
roidpuple
Guest
Tom Treutlein said:
the is no down side if that is your regular patten.
but sleeps works by your body tempraure. And the most important sleep is Rem witch we go through cycles.. after the 1st cycle your temp start warming up.. sleeping longer will not increase the time of REM sleep...
It stays the same.. the cycles just slow down and repeat themselves..
with no benifit.. except slowly warming up your body to enter you in to awakeness.. the longer you sleep the slower you temp will rise.. and hince when you wake you will be low in energy..
.... those 1st 4-6 hrs are the important sleep hours where you are in more of a deep sleep.. the rest of the time is just your body going through the cycles slowing going up and down until you wake.. but if you start getting use to this.. or say start doing cardio in the morning 1st thing when you wake up .. hince raising your body temp.. your body will get use to it...
and will start warming up for you.. waking you up.. in a more atomatic.. way with out the alarm clock.
some people are light sleeper and some are hard sleepers why do you think this is? have you ever tried it yourself.. have you ever been use to differnt sleep patterns.. or have you always had the same one?
I have slept 5. and I have slept 12.. with more then 6hrs of sleep..
i usually have trouble going to sleep.. and wakeing up..win i sleep around 5 and have it set like that on a schedule that my body is use to.. that is when i feel the best...
you can just think. like why you are use to sleeping 8hrs and then you go to 5 and feel like shit. that that is your proof. because when your body is use to warming up at 8 and you wake up at 6 .. you will be a zombie because your body is still going to do the same you will feel awake at 8 just like you always do.. Ther are people that have had sleeping problems all there life.. that sleep like 45 min a night if they are lucky..
it happens.. guess what.. they still grow.. they still function....
...Your body does not just grow at night. while you are resting. it grows constantly... sleep is more mental then physical..
Tom Treutlein
New member
Roid, all I see is a bunch of mindless rambling that's entirely botched up, with no study behind what you're saying. The body goes through REM (Stage 4) sleep every 90 minutes. A sleep cycle occurs every 1.5 hours. Sleeping longer can and will increase the body's time spent in Stage 4 sleep, so long as you consistently pass that 90 minute interval.
The only thing I can vouch for is feeling groggy if you wake up at a time you're unaccustomed to. This has nothing to do with sleeping too long or little, though. Your body is conditioned to awaking at a certain time. When you break that rhythm, the body has to adjust. It's the same as getting sore after trying an exercise you're not used to. You just need to adapt.
Yes, I have tried different sleep patterns. I've routinely gone for 4-5 hours, and 9-10. I feel better with 9-10. Maybe you're not active enough to merit more rest, and thus, you get away with less sleep. In that case, I can see the five hours being enough for you. I mean, think about it - if I work twice as hard as you, it may not be a direct carryover to how much sleep I need, but I'm sure I'd need to sleep longer in order for my body to recover. It's similar to more advanced athletes in the sport of lifting. When you start, you can get away with higher intensities more often. However, as one advances, you need to cut back on that, due to the overload on the CNS. Your body needs more time to recuperate.
The only thing I can vouch for is feeling groggy if you wake up at a time you're unaccustomed to. This has nothing to do with sleeping too long or little, though. Your body is conditioned to awaking at a certain time. When you break that rhythm, the body has to adjust. It's the same as getting sore after trying an exercise you're not used to. You just need to adapt.
Yes, I have tried different sleep patterns. I've routinely gone for 4-5 hours, and 9-10. I feel better with 9-10. Maybe you're not active enough to merit more rest, and thus, you get away with less sleep. In that case, I can see the five hours being enough for you. I mean, think about it - if I work twice as hard as you, it may not be a direct carryover to how much sleep I need, but I'm sure I'd need to sleep longer in order for my body to recover. It's similar to more advanced athletes in the sport of lifting. When you start, you can get away with higher intensities more often. However, as one advances, you need to cut back on that, due to the overload on the CNS. Your body needs more time to recuperate.
I know a good deal about sleep and it seems like there's a lot of misinformation here.
The average young adult will sleep 8-9 hours each night if left uninterrupted, and will feel best on this amount. As people age they need less sleep; seniors can do with 6-7.
Sleeping goes in cycles.
-From hours 1-4, the sleep cycles from stage 1 to stage 4 and back again.
-Starting at around hour 4, sleeping cycles from REM cycles to stage 4, then 3, and closer to 1st and 2nd stage as you near waking.
- this is why you often feel worse when waking up on 5-6 hours as you do when getting only 3, in the latter case you have not interrupted REM sleep; you haven't even gotten there. You will be blizted the next day though.
Sleep deprivation weakens the immune system and harms mental functioning. Alertness, attention, etc suffer from sleep deprivation, although strangely the ability to perform short focused tasks does not suffer.
You can build up a "sleep debt." Sleep deprivation doesn't always mean you had a couple nights where you stayed up too late and now you're sleep deprived. If consistently get only 1-2 hours under what your body wants, over time the fatigue will accumulate.
A study was performed where a group of adults was paid to stay in bed for 16 hours each day (where can I sign up for this, damn!) It was found that the first few days they slept up to 12 hours each, but after a time normalized down to 8 hours. This was them repaying their sleep debt of previous deprivation.
Sleep 101 gents, enjoy! When in doubt, sleep longer. You may find you have more energy and don't need as many naps.
The average young adult will sleep 8-9 hours each night if left uninterrupted, and will feel best on this amount. As people age they need less sleep; seniors can do with 6-7.
Sleeping goes in cycles.
-From hours 1-4, the sleep cycles from stage 1 to stage 4 and back again.
-Starting at around hour 4, sleeping cycles from REM cycles to stage 4, then 3, and closer to 1st and 2nd stage as you near waking.
- this is why you often feel worse when waking up on 5-6 hours as you do when getting only 3, in the latter case you have not interrupted REM sleep; you haven't even gotten there. You will be blizted the next day though.
Sleep deprivation weakens the immune system and harms mental functioning. Alertness, attention, etc suffer from sleep deprivation, although strangely the ability to perform short focused tasks does not suffer.
You can build up a "sleep debt." Sleep deprivation doesn't always mean you had a couple nights where you stayed up too late and now you're sleep deprived. If consistently get only 1-2 hours under what your body wants, over time the fatigue will accumulate.
A study was performed where a group of adults was paid to stay in bed for 16 hours each day (where can I sign up for this, damn!) It was found that the first few days they slept up to 12 hours each, but after a time normalized down to 8 hours. This was them repaying their sleep debt of previous deprivation.
Sleep 101 gents, enjoy! When in doubt, sleep longer. You may find you have more energy and don't need as many naps.
R
roidpuple
Guest
Tom Treutlein said:
Well it is acually when i am sleeping 4-6 hrs on a good schedule that I usually make my best gains and have my best workouts in the gym. I do not know how active you are but I do workout everyday and I am a pretty up beat person. As a child I slept alot. usually 10-12 hrs. I also believed what everyone was saying about the 8hrs of sleep. And my whole life has a shitty time in the mornings. It would usually take me a few hrs to wake up fully and was not a morning person. I did not talk. I would just grunt in the mornings, counld not think strait and I though it was just a normal thing because i had always been that way. When i did wake up I was a crazy freak I am pertty hyper, and fun. And what i can tell you is that I just started getting a very little amount of sleep. So i would have time to work out. Going into this i though that this is going to suck. My lifting will be week and i will not grow from lack of sleep. for the 1st month or so i was pretty groggy. Then my body adjusted to the rythem.
I became full of energy and my lifting was the best it ever had been. I though this is strange.
Then I came across this Book. It talked about all of this and it just made since to me. that we do not need 8hrs. I have heard for years about test being done saying american is sleep deprived. I though but i feel way better.
and then i read this "There are people who get an average of 8 to 10 hours of sleep, and always feel tired,
drowsy, low on energy, and complain about “poor sleep”, or “sleep deprivation”, and
try to compensate by sleeping even longer! In reality, they are sleeping TOO MUCH,
and decreasing the “quality” of their sleep as well as their energy levels. This
happens because there is an underlying energy and sleep mechanism in their body
that they're not even aware of."
I had to agree that sounded like me.
But what on Earth is quality sleep?
Is it some mysterious force that just comes and attacks us in the middle of the night
that we have no control over? Most people have very limited knowledge and beliefs
about what sleep is. Often sleep just means “sleep”, and nothing more, and we don't
pay much attention as to how it affects our health.
Until the 20th century, it was believed that our minds completely turned off during
sleep. Recent scientific discovery has un-covered something completely different.
What you'll discover in this e-book is that once you sleep, your mind enters a state
so fascinating and rich with structure that it makes being awake look boring! When
we're sleeping, our minds are more active than they are when we're awake Knowing this may lead you to asking yourself the question:
“If our minds are so active during our sleep, perhaps my sleep has a greater effect
on my body, and my health, than I previously thought?”
our minds exhibit a certain brain wave when we're alive. , it's
simply a measure of brain activity.
The general understanding you may want to have is that brain waves can either get
“high” and more intense. Or they can get “lower” and become slower, less intense,
and for lack of a better word, lazy.
Stage 1 Sleep
Whether you know it or not, you have consciously experienced Stage 1 Sleep all
your life.
Can you remember a time when you were drowsing off, day dreaming, or “zoning
out” during a boring class or lecture?
It's usually during times like these that we enter Stage 1 Sleep.
During this stage we exhibit slightly lower brain waves called alpha brain waves,
and some theta brain waves. Alpha brain waves are also sometimes called “awake
waves” - because we're still very awake when we're exhibiting them.
In this stage our body relaxes, respiration and heart rate slightly drops, and our
minds tend to drift into an altered state of creativity and relaxation, where thoughts
drip like honey and it feels goooooood to just be there.
You can think of Stage 1 Sleep as a “doorway” to your sleep.
Stage 2 Sleep
During stage 2 sleep, we experience patterns of brain waves called sleep spindles,
and K-Complexes. These are sudden bursts of brain activity. Some scientists think
this symbolizes the gradual attempt by the brain to “turn itself off”, in a manner of
speaking.
During this stage we are still very wakable. In fact, during sleep studies, most people
woken up out of Stage 2 sleep say “I was still awake.”
Stage 3 & 4 (Deep Sleep)
During stage 3 and 4 our brain waves reach their lowest frequency, we exhibit very
low brain waves called delta brain waves, and our mind goes back and forth
between delta and theta brain waves.
It's during these 2 stages that we are truly officially “asleep”, this stage is also called
deep sleep. As we enter deep sleep, our blood pressure, respiration, and heart rate,
reach their lowest point of the day. Our blood vessels dilate and most of the blood
which is usually stored in our organs during the day travels into our muscles to
nourish and repair them.
Stage 5 (REM Sleep)
Stage 5 Sleep is probably the most fascinating stage of sleep, as scientists still do
not know the true purpose of this stage. Stage 5 sleep is also termed Rapid Eye
Movement, or REM sleep.
During the 1950s a scientist by the name of Nathaniel Kleitman discovered that
when people were in this stage of sleep, their eyes moved very rapidly in all
directions. He also discovered that when people were woken up from this stage,
95% of the time they said they were dreaming just at that time. This is why REM
sleep is also commonly referred to as dream sleep. It's believed that we dream
mostly in the REM sleep stage.
What happens to our brain waves during REM sleep?
it would naturally make sense that our brain waves
become even LOWER in this stage of sleep - however, the opposite is true. Our
brain waves rapidly increase,!!!!! <----... and they're very identical to the ones we exhibit when
we're wide awake! This kind of makes sense as you think about it - since when we
experience dreams, they often feel so real and vivid it's hard to realize they weren't
real when we finally wake up.... and of course, sometimes when we wake up we tend
to wish those dreams WERE in fact real
We ALL dream every night; however, not all of us remember our dreams when we
wake up
Well, first you may want to understand that the sleep stages explained above don't
happen only once during sleep. They happen multiple times during sleep in what are
called sleep cycles. witch you already know "good boy"
you can see the graph. just a random site. http://library.thinkquest.org/11189/nfmechanics.htm#sleep
The above graph shows an example of how we progress through the sleep stages, and how much
time we spend in each stage while sleeping. Note: this graph is just an example, on average we
experience about 6-7 of these cycles every night.
So what's happening here? Well, the typical way we travel through our sleep stages
in sleep cycles is as follows:
1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, REM, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2 REM 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, REM, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2 REM......
On average, each one of these cycles takes about 60 - 100 minutes, varying from
person to person.
2. Notice how the first duration of REM sleep is very short; notice how these periods
get longer towards the end.
The understanding you may get out of this is that sleep gradually gets lighter as the
night progresses.
You may have also realized that we don't spend an equal amount of time in each
stage of sleep. You're right, and this is where we'll answer the “What is Quality
Sleep?” question.
R
roidpuple
Guest
How Important is Deep Sleep?
- It's been proven that when we're deprived of deep sleep, we experience our
greatest day-time impairments, such as drowsiness, nausea, headaches, muscle
aches, and trouble concentrating.
- When we're deprived of sleep for any irregular amount of time, our body will
sacrifice all other stages of sleep to regain “deep sleep”. It's believed this is why our
body tries to gain as much deep sleep as possible in the first 3-4 hours of our sleep.
- Because deep sleep is the first stage of sleep the body tries to get the most of, it's
the stage least likely to be missed. As you may recall from the previous graph, the
periods of deep sleep were longest in the beginning.
- Our immune system also turns on during deep sleep to fight diseases. This is why
we sleep more when we're ill.
How Important is REM Sleep?
Studies show that when we're deprived of REM sleep, we exhibit certain day-time
difficulties as well, mainly trouble with concentrating, and sometimes drowsiness.
However, because the body tries to recover deep sleep first as a result of sleep
deprivation, we can assume that REM sleep isn't as important to restoring our
physical functions. It's not clearly known what purpose REM sleep serves; however,
scientists do have a theory that we absorb most of our daytime learnings during
REM sleep. This would explain why babies spend so much time sleeping, 50% of
that time in REM sleep.
So what is Quality Sleep?
As you may have already guessed, quality sleep consists of being able to sleep
deeply. For our minds to easily slide into the deep stages of sleep, and stay there for
the time needed. Easier said than done.
So I've got a question for you: What controls how long and how deep you sleep?
There's an underlying mechanism in our bodies called our “body clock”. However, I
don't like the name so I will simply refer to it as the sleep clock. Your sleep clock is
a system inside of you which controls how you sleep, how deep you sleep, when you
sleep, and how awake you feel during the day. Once you understand this system
you'll be able to take control over your sleep and your energy!
The challenge in our society is that our sleep systems have been weakened by so
many outside stressors that we're not even aware of, that our sleep clocks are totally
out of whack. This is why so many people can't sleep deeply, why they may suffer
from insomnia, poor day-time energy levels, or find themselves waking up several
times in the middle of the night. Usually when you wake up in the middle of the night
it is at the end of a sleep cycle in Stage 2 or REM sleep when our brain waves are
highest and we're most wakable. This happens because of a weakened sleep
system.
- It's been proven that when we're deprived of deep sleep, we experience our
greatest day-time impairments, such as drowsiness, nausea, headaches, muscle
aches, and trouble concentrating.
- When we're deprived of sleep for any irregular amount of time, our body will
sacrifice all other stages of sleep to regain “deep sleep”. It's believed this is why our
body tries to gain as much deep sleep as possible in the first 3-4 hours of our sleep.
- Because deep sleep is the first stage of sleep the body tries to get the most of, it's
the stage least likely to be missed. As you may recall from the previous graph, the
periods of deep sleep were longest in the beginning.
- Our immune system also turns on during deep sleep to fight diseases. This is why
we sleep more when we're ill.
How Important is REM Sleep?
Studies show that when we're deprived of REM sleep, we exhibit certain day-time
difficulties as well, mainly trouble with concentrating, and sometimes drowsiness.
However, because the body tries to recover deep sleep first as a result of sleep
deprivation, we can assume that REM sleep isn't as important to restoring our
physical functions. It's not clearly known what purpose REM sleep serves; however,
scientists do have a theory that we absorb most of our daytime learnings during
REM sleep. This would explain why babies spend so much time sleeping, 50% of
that time in REM sleep.
So what is Quality Sleep?
As you may have already guessed, quality sleep consists of being able to sleep
deeply. For our minds to easily slide into the deep stages of sleep, and stay there for
the time needed. Easier said than done.
So I've got a question for you: What controls how long and how deep you sleep?
There's an underlying mechanism in our bodies called our “body clock”. However, I
don't like the name so I will simply refer to it as the sleep clock. Your sleep clock is
a system inside of you which controls how you sleep, how deep you sleep, when you
sleep, and how awake you feel during the day. Once you understand this system
you'll be able to take control over your sleep and your energy!
The challenge in our society is that our sleep systems have been weakened by so
many outside stressors that we're not even aware of, that our sleep clocks are totally
out of whack. This is why so many people can't sleep deeply, why they may suffer
from insomnia, poor day-time energy levels, or find themselves waking up several
times in the middle of the night. Usually when you wake up in the middle of the night
it is at the end of a sleep cycle in Stage 2 or REM sleep when our brain waves are
highest and we're most wakable. This happens because of a weakened sleep
system.
Tom Treutlein
New member
That's all good and everything, but that still doesn't show any indication that you're better off getting less sleep, than more. Maybe you're an odd case, or maybe I am, but I can tell you one thing - If I were to sleep only five hours with my current job and training intensities, I would never make it through the day. Not without cutting a few people down, anyway. I'd soon run myself into the ground, and would end up spending a weekend just sleeping.
Honestly, Casual's explanation made more sense, from whatever anecdotal evidence I've seen.
Honestly, Casual's explanation made more sense, from whatever anecdotal evidence I've seen.
R
roidpuple
Guest
Short sleep is associated with good health as well as long life. Studies show that in the range that most Americans sleep (which is 6, 7, or 8 hours or so), there are few discernable differences between people. This may surprise you, but people who sleep 6 hours seem to be at least as happy as people who sleep 8 hours. Moreover, people who sleep 6 hours get just as much work done and are just as rich as people who sleep 8 hours. There may be some tendency for people with the shortest sleep times (5 or 6 hours) to be outgoing and energetic, whereas people with the longest sleep times (9 or 10 hours) seem to be more introverted, imaginative, or perhaps a bit depressed. Notice the surprise! People who sleep less are less depressed!
http://www.darksideofsleepingpills.com/all.html#ch3
First, remember that you do not need 8 hours of sleep per night. That old idea just is not so. In our studies in San Diego, the average adult is actually asleep only between 6 and 6.5 hours a night. National polls give similar results. Moreover, in the recent Cancer Prevention Study II results, people who slept 6.5 to 7.5 hours lived a bit longer than people who slept 8 hours or more. The shorter sleepers lived longer! Even people who said that they slept as little as 3.5 hours lived longer than those who slept 8 hours or more! Certainly, if you get only 6.5 or 7 hours of sleep a night, you do not have to sleep any more.
http://www.darksideofsleepingpills.com/all.html#ch3
First, remember that you do not need 8 hours of sleep per night. That old idea just is not so. In our studies in San Diego, the average adult is actually asleep only between 6 and 6.5 hours a night. National polls give similar results. Moreover, in the recent Cancer Prevention Study II results, people who slept 6.5 to 7.5 hours lived a bit longer than people who slept 8 hours or more. The shorter sleepers lived longer! Even people who said that they slept as little as 3.5 hours lived longer than those who slept 8 hours or more! Certainly, if you get only 6.5 or 7 hours of sleep a night, you do not have to sleep any more.
