What would happen?

[berry1]

Before i ask this im just going to say the first part of the question applies to me the second part applies to a friend of mine.

I've trained for a few years built up a acceptable build, could do with dropping a few on the body fat but its not to bad. Im gonna run a cycle soon an if you run a cycle before even coming close your genetic limit how keepable are the gains during and after pct? got a decent foundation and muscle mass but no where near my genetic limits.

The second part of the question that doesn't apply to me as i have a foundation build. If a new guy to training was to do a cycle after only a couple months of training say 2-3 months so he doesn't have much of a foundation how keepable would the gains be after finishing up? juicing to build a foundation not the other way round like its supposed to be? assuming that he has a decent training buddy, spot on nutrition and lifting plan. He thinks if he keeps his cals up and training that he should be able to maintain a good portion of the gains even though he had very little lean muscle before juicing.

 

[25homes]

Gains are keepable if u do pct right eat right and continue to train right...second part bad idea muscle gonna grow way to fast for ligaments and tendons gonna cause major problems

 

[berry1]

Gains are keepable if u do pct right eat right and continue to train right...second part bad idea muscle gonna grow way to fast for ligaments and tendons gonna cause major problems

Brilliant thanks man just dont want to loose all gains because of starting to early. I know its probably best to reach genetic potential first but if i can keep some decent gains then im down for it.

Whats likely to happen to the other guy would you say? said he already bought the gear so i doubt he wont run it lol. Will any gains he makes in the cycle before he injures himself be keepable after cycle if the very unlikely happens and he doesn't do damage that prevents him training? he has trained a couple of years back but with crazy calorie deficts hes done now looks like a 150lb stick so no foundation. He said he wants to take them to speed up his starting back with the weights then go natural but not much use if he will loose all the gains when he finishes them

 

[stevesmi]

like homes said you would open yourself up for injuries.

its like giving a 16 year old a Porsche, expect to get a call in the middle of the night because they wrapped it around a tree.

if you improve your strength and mass too fast you will notice soft type of injuries which can become chronic and very annoying.. your attitude cycling should be improving a little by little. I cringe when I hear stories of some skinny kid hopping on sauce and gaining 30 pounds in 12 weeks, not good at all

I went through this when I was an endurance athlete and I didn't even juice or take any PED's.. I improved way too fast and my body began to rebel and I started getting nagging injuries. so imagine a weightlifter who tries to build Rome overnight and who also adds steroids to their gameplan, it will be an utter disaster.

since I have such a solid base before I touched steroids, lifting 13 years.. I literally can say I never had any injuries related to weightlifting, yet I read about dudes who blow out their shoulders doing freaking pull downs!!! or guys who complain how their knees hurt when the squat. well if you use proper form, and improve SLOWLY and build a proper base your chance of injury is almost 0

 

[silent_revolver]

In your case as long as you know how to train properly, gains are def keepable after PCT. But from my experience, you are going to start one cycle, find a PCT and a bridge and hop back on pretty soon. I am currently on my second cycle and I am already planning the whole game plan leading to the third cycle in Dec! It grips you brother. The gains are too addictive, the drive to train too strong and too hard to replicate naturally. So think twice about plunging in. You should have also a solid foundation of knowledge about steroids before starting. You should know which type of steroids does what, its side effects, the ancillary drugs to combat them, and the correct PCT protocol to deal with your specific cycle. You should also know how steroids work on a biological and chemical level. Without enough knowledge you end up fucking yourself by doing something stupid like running a Deca only cycle expecting to recover from some HCGenerate.

Knowing your diet is key too, and also knowing your body type and at what rate/ratio you accumulate fat and LBM. If you are a BB that's 70% of the game. Training and steroids are just an after thought

For the Newb, steroids is out of the question. Learn how to train first, without two years of foundation there is no way someone could have accumulated enough training knowledge to make full use of the steroids. You get some ego driven prick guillotine pressing 315 on a smith machine and wonder why his rotator cuffs are fucked. You have to learn to walk before you run. And once the dude is off, he would not have build up that relationship with the iron to persevere and keep training during those dark hours of PCT. Easy come, easy go player.

Weight training is not a sprint, its a marathon, don't burn out before you get started

 

[berry1]

Thanks for the replies hope i didn't give the impression that i'm taking the AS thing lightly because ive done extensive research before even considering running them. I do only have 2 years of natural training behind me plus a couple of years of on and off training with terrible diet. Just over the last 2 years have got my training in order and diet. Know all about pct, cycling and everything i really would need to safely run some gear, feel like i could write a book i've read that much lmao. Was gonna run just a basic test prop cycle no stacking as you all said want to take things one step at a time and not run before i can walk.

Unfortunately cant say the same for this new fella he doesn't exactly hold the same take things one step at a time attitude that i have. Now i see what you all mean this guy is going to do some serious physical damage to himself. Been training with his brother for the last 5 months and now hes introduced me to this new guy who has now joined along (we go the gym on same days). I really dont think i will be able to stop this guy juicing because hes more than determined to run them and he even purchased his gear in already. Managed to get him to put the cycle off for a while why he waits for some clomid and nolvadex to come for pct he had never even heard of pct lol. Doesn't help that his brother who has been training for way longer thinks the idea is fine. Will for sure let him know about the ridiculously high risk of injury and hopefully he changes his mind if not then fuck it some people got to learn the hard way

But as we all know its not a magic way to getting the perfect physique if you dont train right or hard enough and diet then there's only so much the juice can do. He might not even put that much mass on but if he did work his ass off and puts on in your opinions if someone had the training spot on, diet and was willing to push through pct and still keep training up with good form how likely would they be to loose all gains? considering they have very little in natural muscle before starting. Im aware he will probably fuck himself up before even putting much mass on lol

He probably wont get as much testosterone as hes planning as im guessing his shit is under dosed. Think it said legend pharma on his vials or legend something not heard a lot on them but when he said how much he paid got to be underdosed or something I'm probably going to go with norma greece or gen shi labs when i do eventually run.

 

[berry1]

I sure get you silent_revolver bet its damn addictive psychologically but im a very health anxious guy wouldn't even consider running more than about a cycle a year depending on how the first one gone. Now if i lost most of the mass then my attitude on this might change thats why i made this question before running anything as wouldn't want to fuck up my natural test production permanently.

 

[silent_revolver]

But as we all know its not a magic way to getting the perfect physique if you dont train right or hard enough and diet then there's only so much the juice can do. He might not even put that much mass on but if he did work his ass off and puts on in your opinions if someone had the training spot on, diet and was willing to push through pct and still keep training up with good form how likely would they be to loose all gains? considering they have very little in natural muscle before starting. Im aware he will probably fuck himself up before even putting much mass on lol

He probably wont get as much testosterone as hes planning as im guessing his shit is under dosed. Think it said legend pharma on his vials or legend something not heard a lot on them but when he said how much he paid got to be underdosed or something I'm probably going to go with norma greece or gen shi labs when i do eventually run.

Damn right dude, I know dudes who take upwards of 1G of Test a week and they still look like shit, not to mention their strength is still below average. I am glad you have done your research before taking the plunge, forums are great to get a second opinion but you know your body best and with gear, you are always going to be self experimenting to a degree.

As far as keepable gains, I find that the addition of Anavar at the end of a Test cycle really helps to keep my gains. I am taking Dylan's advice and will use Osta for my PCT this time round, we'll see how that pans out.

Your boy will no doubt fuck himself up. Its not just from the steroids, its the mentality. Guys with a solid foundation would start off using a reasonable dose and keep doses low throughout the cycling career. They understand that there is a point of diminished returns when it comes to gear. Whether you are Powerlifting or BBing, training and diet is 90% of the game, steroids help, but not to the extent most people realise. Not to mention the fact that his immature ass will not be ready for the side effects that WILL come. These are the fuckers that give roids a bad name. BE a friend a dissuade him, if he insists, its his choice, fuck him.