Triathlete Trying to Put on Muscle

[trimojo]

Hello,
I have been reading the board on and off for about a year once I decided I wanted to start working out. When the clock struck midnight 2006, I signed up for eight triathlon races, I figured it would get me motivated. It has, I only have 1 Olympic distance race this left this year. As a novice, I placed 2nd in my first race. 1st place in my next 4 races, and 2nd in my only age group race. My strength is swimming. My greatest moment was winning 1st novice by 20 minutes in May, racing a Half Ironman. 1.2 mile swim, 56 mile bike, 13.1 mile run. My time for the half was 6hr 2 min. Next season I will be racing in age group. I'm pleased with my first season, but know that I have to work harder to do well in age group.

My season is winding down and I'd like to build more muscle. I'm also thinking about studying for the ACE personal trainer program and becoming certified. I'm a bit burnt out with triathlon racing. Maybe eight was too many my first season?

I have read many posts about less cardio equals more muscle gains. Here is my current training schedule. Is it possible for me to put on muscle with all this cardio?

I ride my bike over five hours a week- 60-80 miles
I run four hours a week-20-30 miles
I swim 6,000 yards per week

Here is my weight lifting schedule:
CHEST & TRICEPS (Monday)

Incline Bench Press (3 sets) 12xbar, 12xbar, 12xbar
Dumbbell Chest Fly's (3 sets) 12x20lbs, 10x20lbs, 8x20lbs
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press (3 sets) 12x20lbs, 10x20lbs, 8x20lbs, 8x20lbs
Peck Deck Machine (5 sets) 12x30lbs, 12x25lbs, 12x25lbs, 12x20lbs, 12x20lbs
Chest Press Machine (3 sets) 8x60lbs, 10x55lbs, 10x55lbs


Tri's Standing Cable Pushdowns (3 sets) 12x30lbs, 12x30lbs, 12x30lbs
Skullcrushers (3 sets) 12xEZ bar, 12xEZ bar, 12x EZ bar
Dumbbell Donkey Kickbacks (3 sets) 12x15lbs, 12x15lbs, 12x15lbs
Seated Press (3 sets) 12x90lbs, 12x100lbs, 12x100lbs
Assisted Dip Machine (5 sets) 12x50lbs, 12x50lbs, 12x45lbs, 12x45lbs, 10x40lbs

Legs and ABs(Tuesday)
Leg Extensions (2 sets Warm-up) 12x50lbs, 12x50lbs
Squats (5 sets) 12xbar+50, 12xbar+50, 12xbar+60, 12xbar+60, 12xbar+70
Sled 45 degree Lying Leg Press (4 sets) 12x90lbs, 12x90lbs, 12x110lbs, 12x110lbs
Leg Extensions (3 sets) 12x70lbs, 12x75lbs, 12x80lbs
High Step Ups (4 sets) 12x(2)15lb dumbbells, 16x(2)15lb dumbbells, 20x(2)15lb dumbbells, 20x(2)15lb dumbbells
Lying Leg Curls (3 sets) 12x40lbs, 12x45lbs, 12x45lbs
Straight Leg Dead Lifts (3 sets) 12xbar, 12xbar+20, 12xbar+20
Adductor (3 sets) 12x80lbs, 12x90lbs, 12x100lbs
Abductor (3 sets) 12x80lbs, 12x90lbs, 12x90lbs


Back(Thursday)
Lat Pulldowns (4 sets) 12x65lbs, 12x80lbs, 12x85lbs, 12x90lbs
Bent Over Rows (4 sets) 12xbar+10, 12xbar+10, 12xbar+20, 12xbar+20
T-Bar Rows (3 sets) 12x65lbs, 12x70lbs, 12x70lbs
Dumbbell One Arm Rows (3 sets) 12x25lbs, 12x25lbs, 12x25lbs
Assisted Pull-up (3 sets) 12x60lbs, 12x50lbs, 12x50lbs
Biceps
Standing Olympic Bar Curls (4 sets) 12xbar, 12xbar, 12xbar+10, 12xbar+10
Seated Dumbbell "Arnold" Curls (4 sets) 12x15lbs, 12x15lbs, 12x20lbs, 12x20lbs
Preacher Curls (3 sets) 12x30lbs, 12x40lbs, 12x35lbs

I do a four day split rountine, so this week, I'd end Friday with chest and tri's again. I'd like my legs to have more definition. I'd like to have that teardrop quad. I'm not sure how to acheive that, lifting heavier weights?

I've also starting changing my diet and trying to eat more protein. I was very good logging my foods for a few days.
http://fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=Kaibic

Since I've cut back on carbs, I think my endurance has suffered. I need to consume carbs during long rides or runs or I bonk.

I guess my question is, can I be a fast triathlete and be super cut too? Here's what we got to work with.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-2/1148342/back.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-2/1148342/legs2.jpg

I am not so good at posing for muscle pictures either!

 

[caligirl]

I'll step up here, being I have experience as a seasonal athlete myself and had like goals as you. First off, you may want to plan a whole new training program now to implement AFTER your season is over, and after a couple weeks rest period to let your body recover.
If your doing well now, (finishes) dont change anything you're doing.
AS for carbs and bonking.... go back to what you were doing when you were NOT
bonking. You can work on yourself after your season is over. I would say you are over training to build muscle. Do some research and plan yourself out a solid program to gain mass. The teardrop muscle is your VMO, you can build that with weight, (modified leg xtensions) but I'd be surprised you dont have one if you cycle? you may just need to take a look at your diet to shed some fat and then it will pop out. but again I would only implement AFTER your season is over andafter your body had a rest. hope this helps some!

***edit.... holt cow girl! I hope you eat more than this in a day! no wonder you bonk..... I'm surprised you can even function! with all of your activity you need more like 4x as much

 

[Sassy69]

I'll step up here, being I have experience as a seasonal athlete myself and had like goals as you. First off, you may want to plan a whole new training program now to implement AFTER your season is over, and after a couple weeks rest period to let your body recover.
If your doing well now, (finishes) dont change anything you're doing.
AS for carbs and bonking.... go back to what you were doing when you were NOT
bonking. You can work on yourself after your season is over. I would say you are over training to build muscle. Do some research and plan yourself out a solid program to gain mass. The teardrop muscle is your VMO, you can build that with weight, (modified leg xtensions) but I'd be surprised you dont have one if you cycle? you may just need to take a look at your diet to shed some fat and then it will pop out. but again I would only implement AFTER your season is over andafter your body had a rest. hope this helps some!

I agree - get thru that last race and then make a change. Generally its very hard to build muscle and drop fat at the same time, but I'd be willing to bet that makign the appropriate change in your diet & training that you should get some results. But if your goal is to build muscle - do you keep the same level of cardio training off season as well? That amount of cardio pretty much goes completely against the goal of trying to build muscle so if your goal is to build muscle, then I'd adjust my training to build muscle - not eat muscle. Your diet will also need to change.

I would probably suggest wait until after your last race and then consider what you need to do off season to prepare for your schedule next yr as far as endurance & the diet that would be required to support that, and then with your "musts" as your base, build up the lifting and diet around that. See where compromises might be made w/ the endurance trainign to meet your muscle goals.

 

[trimojo]

Morning,
Thanks for the comments so far. I guess I must choose to do endurance events or body building. I can't have my cake and eat it too? I'm toying with the idea of a competition so I must decide. I don't want to do any that I have to do a cheerleading/dance routine though.

The food log I posted was pretty accurate. That was a triathlon training "rest" week. I wasn't logging in hours and hours of cardio. I was trying to follow a more protein, lower carb "clean" diet. I do feel better after cutting out processed carbs "pretzels, chips, poptarts, sugary cereal". I was eating pretty much anything I wanted before I made the change two weeks ago. I'm only eating natural sources of carbs right now, veggies, fruit, oatmeal.

Consuming 4x that amount of food seems like a lot. Is there someone's log I could look at that will help me understand a building muscle diet? Would I be looking at six 300 calorie meals per day?

My last race of the season it's extremely important. I'm going at there to finish this season in fun. My sister will be racing with me. I thought I could go ahead and get a head start with weight training. I'm really enjoying lifting, like I said, the long hours of cardio have me a bit burnt out. This is a nice change of pace.

I forgot to mention my current stats. I'm 5'5", I weigh 114 pounds and my bodyfat is at 13.5%

 

[florencia]

Hey Tri!
I am very familiar with triathlon. BF is one...Does natoinal circuit, and ironman.
He will be doing 70.3 in Cancun next month.
There is a post up on Sassy's log where I asked something similar...
Post 1041....http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469288&page=27&pp=40

I hope it helps you!

 

[Gymgurl]

Good info here....I think your diet needs to be revamped around...more protein. By changing things reight now it could really mess you up....Hey please start a log. I am very very interested in seeing what your doing....eating, training stuff like that! Good luck to you!

 

[Roonytunes]

I forgot to mention my current stats. I'm 5'5", I weigh 114 pounds and my bodyfat is at 13.5%

We have similar stats. And I cannot imagine eating as little as you do and getting all that activity in. More calories and more protein for sure....for me, I run carbs at 40% of my total, but limit my starchy carbs to about 60g a day and the rest come from veggies/fruit/etc. However, this is to support my personal activity level of a 3-day weight training split, 1-2 spinning classes and 2 other days of fairly intense 30 min cardio. You will probably need to modify the ratios to suit your more intense training schedule.

 

[caligirl]

Morning,
Thanks for the comments so far. I guess I must choose to do endurance events or body building. I can't have my cake and eat it too? I'm toying with the idea of a competition so I must decide. I don't want to do any that I have to do a cheerleading/dance routine though.

The food log I posted was pretty accurate. That was a triathlon training "rest" week. I wasn't logging in hours and hours of cardio. I was trying to follow a more protein, lower carb "clean" diet. I do feel better after cutting out processed carbs "pretzels, chips, poptarts, sugary cereal". I was eating pretty much anything I wanted before I made the change two weeks ago. I'm only eating natural sources of carbs right now, veggies, fruit, oatmeal.

Consuming 4x that amount of food seems like a lot. Is there someone's log I could look at that will help me understand a building muscle diet? Would I be looking at six 300 calorie meals per day?

My last race of the season it's extremely important. I'm going at there to finish this season in fun. My sister will be racing with me. I thought I could go ahead and get a head start with weight training. I'm really enjoying lifting, like I said, the long hours of cardio have me a bit burnt out. This is a nice change of pace.

I forgot to mention my current stats. I'm 5'5", I weigh 114 pounds and my bodyfat is at 13.5%

sure you can do both... you would need to decide to what degree you want to compete. (and things can always change) If you are a recreational/amature athlete then you can afford to do both. You will just have to be creative at scheduling your training to accommodate event dates. If you truely wan to do both, you have alot of learning, trial/error and reasearch to do.
The PT course will help a bit, if your really green with lifting training and very basic nutrition. You're going to have to figure out what works for you and that may take time. I would suggest researching exactly what it takes to be a BB'r... or figure girl, whatever your choice and then see if you can juggle that with triathalon... I think you could do it, again it will take planning. And yeah, your diet really needs some revamping. if your 114 you need at least 1200 cals just to exist w/out sending your body into catabolism and to function correctly. An easy formula is to take youor body weight x 10 then add in .5 of your body weight. so 1140+57=1197. I rounded up. Remember, this is just to sit around and do nothing. Some people use a similliar formula to lose weight and it works, but you will not maintain your weight this way.
Now, if you add in your current activity levels in calories, your calorie requirements will go up. Another example: if you want to maintain your weight. take the 1200 as a base add in say 500 xtra cals for exercise expenditure you then have 1700.... this is a very basic example just so you get the idea of how your body works. I myself as an athlete was consuming between 3-3500 cals a day during preseason. it went up to 4k during season, but thats me, and what I need. Again, this is just a very basic example. calorie expenditure and deficites vary person to person depending again, on their activity level. For an athlete nutrition can either make you or break you.

 

[Sassy69]

Given your current stats - 5'5", 114 - in bodybuilding you definitely need a lot more mass - I'm fairly muscular but I compete at 5'7", around 135-140 lb at 7-8% bf. Note that at the national level, the more serious competitors at my weight are only 5'3". I'd suggest you start w/ a figure competition if you are interested in competition - its like fitness competition but w/o the routine. You wear the heels & the 1 & 2 piece suits and only do the quarter turn poses - in BB you do the mandatory poses - front double bi, lat spread and all that in addition to a 60 second routine w/ no music and a 90 sec routine w/ music. I think you'd have to make a substantial change in your body competition to pursue BB. To that end I'd say start w/ figure and just see if it you like it before you dive into something that is very hard to achieve (building serious muscle mass) if you also intend to compete in endurance competitions where the training is completely opposite of mass building and that conflict in goals may affect your performance if you are more serious about the endurance and only want to do the competition for craps & giggles.

However I would venture that once you are done w/ your race season and you make the appropriate changes in your diet & training, I would expect that you would get some pretty good initial growth simply from the massive change in program. I'm also thinking of our other former marathon runner, Hoteacher - she is definitely a hard-gainer and works her ass off to get the muscle mass she has - her challenge is building it. From your pictures, I don't think you would be a hard gainer so I'd maybe start a program geared towards mass building and run it for 4 weeks to see how your body responds. Then you can maybe make some more specific decisions about your time frames and goals for the next year.

 

[hammer37]

Ojo,

I do primarily marathons and long distance triathlons. I too use Fitday to help me track my diet and calorie burn. In response to your post, I had a great deal of success taking off BF and maintain lean mass by keeping my carb intake at 65-70%, fat to 25% (ideally 20%), and protein as the balance. I calculated how many calories I burned through activity and basal metobolic rate and set up a deficit of about 7,000 calories/week to facilitate a healthy loss. I started at 225 pounds and cut down to 209 in 10 weeks. My endurance went through the roof and the fat melted away. I never bonked and never felt deprived at meal time.

However, this diet would be too carb rich without the tremendous cardio I was doing (10k+ meters swimming/wk, 220 mi biking/wk and 40 mi/wk running.) Your Fitday example showing 600 calories for a day is scary low. The "experts" never recommend less than 1200 calories a day, in any case. It's no wonder you're bonking. You will also lose precious lean tissue if this regimen is continued.

Continue to use Fitday to determine how many cals you're burning and build your diet around that. In times of off-season or recovery weeks I would increase protein intake lower carb intake and adjust calories accordingly. Good luck!