Training Philosophies

[nelmsjer]

Above all things, I hope this thread maintains intelligence and is discussed politely. Please, please keep that in mind.

There are quite a few different "camps" when it comes to the topic of training frequency for bodyparts. Some believe a bodypart should be worked with high intensity only once per week. Others believe that the body is a unit and should be treated as such, hitting the body parts more than once per week (2-3 times) at a slightly lower intensity.

Both crowds rely on Hans Selye's General Adaptation Syndrome, which states that the body has an initial "Alarm" reaction to a stress (in this case, exercise). After that "Alarm", the body goes through an "Adaptation" phase. At the onset of the Adaptation phase, our bodies recovery mechanisms and overall systems are actually weaker than where we originally started. As the body continues to adapt, however, the recovery systems and body build up stronger than where they initially started. In the exercise world, it's called the Principle of Overload and Adaptation. Overload the body or body part with exercise, and then it adapts into a stronger unit.

Research has shown that the body will roughly respond by overcompensating to the degree that the initial shock was applied. In other words, if you overload the body or body part very intensely, your body’s stress response will dip quite low in the adaptation phase, but it will theoretically adapt to a higher level because of the greater stress. In addition, the lower the dip in the adaptation curve, the more recovery time is needed. The body part once per week group relies on this factor quite heavily, yet so does the body part multiple times per week crowd.

The difference depends upon the intensity of the “shock”. As explained, the once per week group shocks a body part heavily, creating a low dip in the adaptation curve and a high subsequent overcompensation response. The high overcompensation response (“adaptation”) is the purported greatest benefit for these people. This philosophy maintains that this total response time takes about a week.

The body or bodypart multiple times per week crowd applies a lower “shock”, which causes a more shallow dip in the adaptation curve (it doesn’t go as low) and creates an overcompensation response that is not quite as high. However, recovery time is not as long, and that is the greatest benefit for this group. The positive “adaptation” is theoretically not as high, but it can be done more frequently.

So:

Body part once per week group: higher supercompensation, due to higher intensity
Body part multiple times per week group: more frequent supercompensation, due to a lesser intensity.

Without looking at dozens (at a minimum) of other factors, the question becomes: does the more frequent supercompensation (multiple group) accumulate to greater supercompensation over a time period, compared to the less frequent (but higher) supercompensation of the "once" group??? I believe the answer is yes, for many reasons.

There are approximately 248.6 more things to discuss, but it’s time to take IP home and put her to bed. Let’s start here, and I’ll see what we’ve got in the morning. Good luck and PLAY NICE!!!

 

[scorpiogirl]

I've always done the one body part per week and it worked for me, but I recently started to do body parts 2x per week to change it up. So far, I LOVE the shorter workouts AND I'm still seeing results. I guess I need to give it a little more time to compare one to the other objectively, but for now, I'm very happy with 2x per week!

 

[Miss24k]

Interesting topic

For myself I currently am training every muscle every 5 days, and this is by far my favorite.

 

[Sassy69]

I'd still say that whatever method you choose, you should also change it up. I've done a hundred different approaches that each one of my trainer swears is "the" way to go. The trainer who believes his / her way is the only way is the trainer to run from screaming.

Totally an observational comment, I think after you get "into" the lifestyle, you develop a mental dependence on the training - for ex, if I don't have a 6 day schedule of lifting, I literally don't know what to do with myself. I'm all or nothing. If I don't have a balls-to-the-wall program, I won't bother going to the gym at all. Its almost crippling when I hit a rut like that. Case in poiint - now. If I don't have a direction with a complete program around it, I have a bitch of a time getting anywhere. I couldn't tell you what "method" I'm using because there's absolutely no consistency in anythign I'm doing.

So now, my approach is to drop some muscle mass & lean out. The simple answer would be diet & do a crap load of cardio & classes. The classes thing died as soon as my boss required us to work out of his basement (our temporary work arrangement until the new office space comes up) instead of workign from home. Time conflict & 30 min commute. I hired a trainer to help w/ things more like plyometrics, etc. His sessions are good, but they are 2-3 / week and I've been begging for a training schedule on the between days & he hasn't given it yet. So when I take the initiative & say, throw in a back day because all he really does is "upper body" & "lower body", sure as shit, the next day he does "upper body" w/ half of it being back work. Fug. So that aint' working at all.

So I'm having this mental battle w/ "getting into it" - since my goal is NOT to build muscle, I can't figure out what I'm supposed to do in the gym that is consistent & regular. Except cardio. I have a mental hatred of cardio. Plus eventually my feet start to become a problem (due to foot surgery years ago for bunions) and too much cardio gets me to the point where my feet just fugging hurt. (No "buy new shoes" is not the solution either....)

Anyway -- its a hard discussion to have about "training philosophies" when you have the two additional aspects that you need to change your approach over time or it stagnates and also the mental aspect can either be limited or enlightening. But as 24K says, if something really clicks for you about a particular workout, you will love it more and probably be more prone to follow that method more often.

 

[The Shadow]

STFU and Train

 

[Sassy69]

STFU and Train

So speaketh the guru!

 

[scorpiogirl]

Awww, Shadow, you're such a charmer!!

....but so true!

That would definitely be challenging, Sassy! You're doing a complete turn around from years of heavy, all out, grunting weights. Doesn't sound like your trainer is helping the situation much either!

 

[The Shadow]

So now, my approach is to drop some muscle mass & lean out. The simple answer would be diet & do a crap load of cardio & classes. The classes thing died as soon as my boss required us to work out of his basement (our temporary work arrangement until the new office space comes up) instead of workign from home. Time conflict & 30 min commute. I hired a trainer to help w/ things more like plyometrics, etc. His sessions are good, but they are 2-3 / week and I've been begging for a training schedule on the between days & he hasn't given it yet. So when I take the initiative & say, throw in a back day because all he really does is "upper body" & "lower body", sure as shit, the next day he does "upper body" w/ half of it being back work. Fug. So that aint' working at all.

What about switching to a more aerobic-focused training split??


The East Germans used a similar program and found it to be most beneficial for fat loss due to increase in hgh, igf1 etc??

 

[treilin]

I agree with all remarks so far in this thread. I think change is what really keeps the interest and shows results over long periods of time. If someone sticks with only one routine even if they love it, their body will more then likely adapt to the program unless the person keeps shocking it with something new. It's the shock that I think keeps the body transforming. Not so much as a lot of cardio. I think like Shadow has emphasized and I have learned that lots of cardio pretty much makes you skinny fat... Fat has no specific shape throughout all individuals. There is nothing pretty about fat, in my own opinion.
So I think it's a program that a person can adapt with, knows how to shock their own body with, but they don't feel overwhelmed or under stimulated by. I see people training for years and years in the gym... and year after year they look the same. Yet they are always A) in the weight room, or B) in the cardio room. They are doing what they 'enjoy' doing I suppose. At the same time they are not shocking their body, they are not changing to transform their body, they become a set figure.
I have done the approach where I worked one body part one time a week. Frankly I would hit a plateau with that. The past year or so I have changed. I looked in the mirror decided what I wanted to do and wrote out what I didn't like about my body initially. Like my legs are to small for my upper body, I wish I had more back definition, etc. So on the body parts I want to transform I shock the hell out of them every week, sometime 2-3 times a week, and I hit the muscles I want to maintain once a week hard. I'm talking on friday I can't walk, but by monday damnit I'm back in their recovered because I slept, received massage, drink that lovely water, ate a clean diet, did light cardio to keep the blood circulation and to speed up the flush of metabolic wastes in the muscles. It all depends on how bad you want something.
I think more then it is physical, it's all in the person's head and how they learn to fire their muscles. If you know how to hit a muscle the correct way and work it till failure results are always going to happen. "I despise the person that says I went to the gym and worked a list of muscles and felt nothing, or they were only a little bit sore... I just don't think training is for me." Beat the crap out of yourself and you will see results... anything you want bad enough you will obtain and succeed.
Oh and to finally answer the question I don't believe hitting every muscle once a week is the ideal solution and the way to see results. I think ideally one should look at their own body and figure out what they need to address. For example I have done this... I hit every muscle once a week and my upper body gained size probably at least twice the pace of my lower body. So now I only work upper body once a week, and lower body divided up into 3 times a week (hams, glutes, calves / quads calves / and plyos') No one program fits every individual... So I could obtain supercompensation in my upper body in one hard work-out a week, but it takes 3 days on my lower body to obatin supercompensation.
As Shadow said STFU and train!

 

[scorpiogirl]

I see people training for years and years in the gym... and year after year they look the same. Yet they are always A) in the weight room, or B) in the cardio room. They are doing what they 'enjoy' doing I suppose. At the same time they are not shocking their body, they are not changing to transform their body, they become a set figure.

....these people also think going to the gym is a free ticket to the buffet every night! These are the people who "clog" up the gym and do NOTHING in the process except become a waste of space and a pain in the ass for everyone who wants to TRAIN and can't get around their sorry asses because they're "playing" on all the equipment. Oh God, don't get me started!