The need to go to failure ...

[Debaser]

Powerlifters don't need to go to failure. Bodybuilders do.

I'm sorry, but casual couldn't be any more right. Muscle is muscle. Though it's been proven both empiristically and theoretically that you don't need to train to failure for growth, you site that "if legends don't do it it doesn't work." This statement is so fundamentally flawed I'm not sure why you're trying to use it to make a point.

Just so you know Paul Dillet and Flex Wheeler train like candyasses. But since they do lots of drugs and have incredible genetics (by the way, I don't know many "legends" that don't have these, so it doesn't really matter how they train does it?), they prosper anyway and become huge.

On a closing note, I'll display some pictures of those who just won't go that extra mile to failure, and are thus small:

 

[SofaGeorge]

I'm sorry, but casual couldn't be any more right. Muscle is muscle. Though it's been proven both empiristically and theoretically that you don't need to train to failure for growth, you site that "if legends don't do it it doesn't work."

You put this statement in quotes... but I can't find it quoted anywhere on this thread. Who said it?

 

[Debaser]

I paraphrased. You know exactly what I meant, and the rest of my post (which you ignored) absolutely still holds water.

 

[SofaGeorge]

I paraphrased. You know exactly what I meant, and the rest of my post (which you ignored) absolutely still holds water.

When you say that I know "exactly what you meant" - my perception is that you do not understand the issues being discussed, you "paraphrase" them out of context, and do not have real world insight to support your beliefs...

...so I really don't think we are on the same page.

Your arguement "holds water" for you. It struck me as inane and not worth debating further.

 

[MOD]

...............

personally I found that if I traing to failure my strength goes up like clockwork. with sub failure training I just didn't see the strength increases. more weight = more trauma = more hypertrophy? if you're not doing a program that has you set out a weight progression scheme like HST, then training to failure is the only way to go ( for me ) in my oppinion. I personally can't stand not giving it my all, since half of the fun is challenging yourself.

 

[Debaser]

All right, I'll try again with no paraphrasing:

The people who argue that you don't need to go to failure always look like shit.

Now, see my post above. You think they look like shit?

 

[sk*]

Re: Re: Re: Re: ...............

It's a fact bro...needs no backing up (damnit, I sound like nelson!). Your body adapts to your training routine after about 2 weeks...so your workouts become inefficient. It is optimal to change it up every 4 weeks...check out some articles on periodization.

Everything needs backing bro ...
I asked you to support your other claim though, that higher reps are better for "looking better." Why not do sets with 100reps, 1000reps?

Oh and like I said, it's the mind that gets used to it ... not so much the body directly.

-sk

 

[Mike_Rojas]

I used to see guys go to failure on every set of benches, and week after week they used the same weights.

How many people train to failure on squats anyway? I think if you took a weight and did a set of around 8-10 reps to failure on squats you'd probably lose form bad and injure yourself.

 

[sk*]

Muscle mass and the strength of the muscle don't equate.

I know many 200 lbs powerlifters who easily out lift 260 lbs pro bodybuilders.

The pro bodybuilder's that I saw at Gold's Venice had much more muscle mass than strength. I saw pro bodybuilders struggling with weights that amateur powerlifters would use for warm ups.

Logic doesn't always equal real world results.

Well the lifts aren't exactly the same lifts ...
For example, look how a bb bench differs from a pl bench ...

-sk

 

[Bulldog_10]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...............

Everything needs backing bro ...
I asked you to support your other claim though, that higher reps are better for "looking better." Why not do sets with 100reps, 1000reps?

Oh and like I said, it's the mind that gets used to it ... not so much the body directly.

-sk

If by mind you mean neuromuscular system, then yes...the mind has something to do with it. And 100 reps, 1000 reps? Come on bro...be reasonable.

And what makes you think it's the mind and not the body? How many physiology classes have you taken? How many articles, books, texts, lectures, etc. have you read/seen on the subject?

It's the body...ever hear of overtraining? Periodization? Adaptation?