The need to go to failure ...

[T-Rage]

I think we all have a different definition of what failure is.

For example if I'm benching 190 lbs. for 8 - 12 and the 7th rep is feeling pretty difficult then I'll stop after the 7th rep. I don't consider this failure.

If I had attempted an 8th rep it may have taken me 12 seconds to struggle and get it up. Is this failure? Or is true failure when I attempt my 9th rep and can't even move it from my chest?

My point being is that I believe it is better to stop at 7. I think that if I went for 8 and struggled for 12 seconds that it would be detrimental in terms of possible injury and more uneccesary damage.

I would stop at 7 come back my next week and most likely get 8 which means I'm progressing and thats the bottom line.

 

[louden_swain]

I'm talking about the guys who squat 1000lbs. I bet some/many of them have more lean mass than ronnie.

-sk

Not at all.

 

[sk*]

Not at all.

Hmm, have any of their stats? Would be curious.

-sk

 

[sk*]

I think we all have a different definition of what failure is.

For example if I'm benching 190 lbs. for 8 - 12 and the 7th rep is feeling pretty difficult then I'll stop after the 7th rep. I don't consider this failure.

If I had attempted an 8th rep it may have taken me 12 seconds to struggle and get it up. Is this failure? Or is true failure when I attempt my 9th rep and can't even move it from my chest?

My point being is that I believe it is better to stop at 7. I think that if I went for 8 and struggled for 12 seconds that it would be detrimental in terms of possible injury and more uneccesary damage.

I would stop at 7 come back my next week and most likely get 8 which means I'm progressing and thats the bottom line.

Yea, good post. My defenition of failure is how sofa described absolute failure. My defenition of not training to failure means if it gets a little bit hard to push the weight than stop.

-sk

 

[Shark01]

If I had attempted an 8th rep it may have taken me 12 seconds to struggle and get it up. Is this failure? Or is true failure when I attempt my 9th rep and can't even move it from my chest?

Yes, this is considered a failure rep by most authorities. Stopping after a completed rep just because "it was difficult" is not. Training to failure is incredibly stressful, thats why there is so much opposition to it. Its much easier to do a bunch of sub-optimal sets. But some guys are so genetically and chemically gifted that they can grow from almost anything. I am not, so I have to bust it on EVERY SET.

For casual, there are studies that prove HIT methods are superior, in fact there is a 400+ page book full of them called "Maximizing Your Training", a great read, if a little clinical since a bunch of MDs and PhDs wrote it.

These threads are always pretty funny, Its like walking into a gym and seeing 90% of the people who have no clue what they are doing, and the 10% who are intelligent and working hard.

 

[MOD]

...............

SofaGeorge if failure is so great why stop at concentric? why not go to static and eccentric failure as well?

 

[T-Rage]

One other very important point. We are always looking for cause effect relationships and we always fail to consider the intangibles.

For example for all we know those who go to failure who look amazing...

They may just be so dedicated to lifting that they follow all of the so called proven principles such as going to failure. It may not be going to failure that makes them exceptional. It may be the fact that they are serious, consistent and determined and that is what gives them such good results. We can't simply say that it is because they are going to failure. There are simply too many other variables to consider.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Re: ...............

SofaGeorge if failure is so great why stop at concentric? why not go to static and eccentric failure as well?

Those should only be incorporated once every week at the MOST.

And size and strength do not come hand in hand. Most bodybuilders do high reps, because that is hypertrophy training...not to say that they never lift heavy because they DO...variation is key. If you train one way, you gain one way. If you always lift heavy, you'll be strong, but you won't get too big...and you'll overtrain. If you always lift light, high reps...you'll grow at first, but you won't get much stronger...and you'll overtrain.

VARIATION is the key to growth. Train to failure sometimes, don't do it other times...but don't keep doing the same thing. Go with heavy weights, low reps for a month, then go lower weights, high volume for a month...then do something different.

And don't say one way works and one way doesn't work...because everything works to a different degree, for different people, at different points in their training.

 

[sk*]

Re: Re: ...............

Those should only be incorporated once every week at the MOST.

And size and strength do not come hand in hand. Most bodybuilders do high reps, because that is hypertrophy training...not to say that they never lift heavy because they DO...variation is key. If you train one way, you gain one way. If you always lift heavy, you'll be strong, but you won't get too big...and you'll overtrain. If you always lift light, high reps...you'll grow at first, but you won't get much stronger...and you'll overtrain.

VARIATION is the key to growth. Train to failure sometimes, don't do it other times...but don't keep doing the same thing. Go with heavy weights, low reps for a month, then go lower weights, high volume for a month...then do something different.

And don't say one way works and one way doesn't work...because everything works to a different degree, for different people, at different points in their training.

Back it up bro ... (the comments about high/low rep training)

And variation if the key to mind tricks. Altering your workout helps the mind cope with it and, imo, that is why you grow better ... it isn't because the "body" feels the variation but moreso the mind. IMO.

-sk

 

[b fold the truth]

Finding the right amount of intensity and volume is the key to your progress. It takes time to find that.

B True